Packer depth a mile wide and an inch deep

[Deleted member 6794]

You keep saying they need Elite QB play to win. Anything other then bad QB has been enough. There's a pretty stark difference.

8-9 with bad QB play actually points to there being plenty of talent to go around when with even just average play that record changes drastically

Rodgers hasn't played terrible for most of the last 17 games.

 

[PackerDNA]

The Vikings -again- you mean. They are 5-0. Lost AP and Teddy and are dominating with defense, special teams and ball control O.

Didn't put them down for this year because they already passed us last year.' Now they're pulling away.

 

[Sky King]

Rodgers hasn't played terrible for most of the last 17 games.

He hasn't played at an MVP level for the last 17 games either.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He hasn't played at an MVP level for the last 17 games either.

Exactly, and the Packers don't have the talent to win without him playing at an elite level.

 

[RRyder]

Rodgers hasn't played terrible for most of the last 17 games.

He hasn't been good or average anywhere in there for the most part either.

There's a big difference between needing ELITE QB play to win and just needing average

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He hasn't been good or average anywhere in there for the most part either.

There's a big difference between needing ELITE QB play to win and just needing average

Well, Rodgers has thrown 30 touchdowns and 11 interceptions over the last 17 games, pretty sure that's above average.

 

[Un4GivN]

The Vikings -again- you mean. They are 5-0. Lost AP and Teddy and are dominating with defense, special teams and ball control O.

This is so true, Minn. actually has the 3rd worst offense by yards per game in the league. Their defense on the other hand is scary good.

But on the flip side, we have been drafting defensive players for like 10 years it feels like. Lots of huge misses along the way.

 

[Un4GivN]

Well, Rodgers has thrown 30 touchdowns and 11 interceptions over the last 17 games, pretty sure that's above average.

He is also near last in completion percentage and yards per attempt during that time... Brian Hoyer is actually playing better than Rodgers right now. That should tell you something.

 

[Half Empty]

Well, Rodgers has thrown 30 touchdowns and 11 interceptions over the last 17 games, pretty sure that's above average.

Took a quick look at 2015 and to-date 2016 stats. Don't care to try 'the last 17 games' comparison, but there are lots of QBs with an equal or better TD/Int ratio in both those periods. You're better at the number than most of us - if you can do the 17 games thing without too much trouble (and, of course, as in all these discussions, define 'above average' ), I'd be interested.

 

[RRyder]

He is also near last in completion percentage and yards per attempt during that time... Brian Hoyer is actually playing better than Rodgers right now. That should tell you something.

Beat me to it

 

[Mavster]

This is so true, Minn. actually has the 3rd worst offense by yards per game in the league. Their defense on the other hand is scary good.

But on the flip side, we have been drafting defensive players for like 10 years it feels like. Lots of huge misses along the way.

We've drafted 27 guys on defense since the SB win, 5 of which were 1st rounders.

 

[swhitset]

Rodgers hasn't played terrible for most of the last 17 games.

Just because he wasn't throwing tons of picks and fumbling every other play doesn't mean his play was good. I really think he has missed on many opportunities in most if those games.... opportunities he didn't miss in the past.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He is also near last in completion percentage and yards per attempt during that time... Brian Hoyer is actually playing better than Rodgers right now. That should tell you something.

There's no doubt that Rodgers has struggled over the last 17 games but I would argue that he has been average over that period.

Took a quick look at 2015 and to-date 2016 stats. Don't care to try 'the last 17 games' comparison, but there are lots of QBs with an equal or better TD/Int ratio in both those periods. You're better at the number than most of us - if you can do the 17 games thing without too much trouble (and, of course, as in all these discussions, define 'above average' ), I'd be interested.

Rodgers has a passer rating of 84.1 over his last 17 games, which aftee looking it up is indeed below the league average of 90.9 for this season.

Just because he wasn't throwing tons of picks and fumbling every other play doesn't mean his play was good. I really think he has missed on many opportunities in most if those games.... opportunities he didn't miss in the past.

I'm not arguing that Rodgers has performed at a high level over the past 17 games but that the Packers need elite play out of him to be a contender.

 

[Carl]

Overall, while Ted Thompson has continued to supply the Packers with players of upper level ability, I've always maintained his critical flaw is he views undrafted free agents in the same vein as top level draftees. He and cap guru Russ Ball are masters at keeping the Packers flexible under the cap. But I've always complained that that approach has also left the team('draft and develop') with a perilous shortage of depth, or talent a mile wide at the top and an inch deep behind them.
The secondary is a prime example. Facing the Bears this weekend at the corners will be two young players far down the depth chart. Every team faces injury concerns, but few place such importance on marginal players.
New England has had horrible injury problems this year along with Brady's suspension. They didn't miss a beat. Why? New England scans the league for affordable veterans as backups. Thompson sees veterans as salary cap liabilities(Sitton) and replaces them with lesser, cheaper players(Taylor).
Here's something else to ponder: why are the Packers seemingly every year shredded by injuries? Yes, all teams have injuries, but the Packers every year seem to have many, many people out. I think it's McCarthy's approach in the pre-season of taking it easy on the vets. They don't get 'hardened' to live action, and then when it hits, the injury bug pops up.

There's not team in the league that would look good at corner after losing their top 3 guys.

There's a reason Goodson is a dime back who mostly plays special teams.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There's not team in the league that would look good at corner after losing their top 3 guys.

There's a reason Goodson is a dime back who mostly plays special teams.

Once again, it's the general manager's job to find other players capable of performing at a decent level. If Goodson doesn't get the job done there's no reason to keep him on the roster any longer.

 

[Mondio]

The league is filled with guys like Goodson at the 4th, 5th and 6th spot at CB. At this point, even those guys are all snatched up and even if this was August, the likelihood of dropping Goodson for another fringe player from another team would likely result in another Goodson or worse.

There is no team with #1 and #2 corner level talent 6 deep on the roster, anywhere.

 

[Carl]

Once again, it's the general manager's job to find other players capable of performing at a decent level. If Goodson doesn't get the job done there's no reason to keep him on the roster any longer.

Teams simply do not have 5 corners capable of playing at full time starter level.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The league is filled with guys like Goodson at the 4th, 5th and 6th spot at CB. At this point, even those guys are all snatched up and even if this was August, the likelihood of dropping Goodson for another fringe player from another team would likely result in another Goodson or worse.

There is no team with #1 and #2 corner level talent 6 deep on the roster, anywhere.

Teams simply do not have 5 corners capable of playing at full time starter level.

Well, as I've said before unfortunately the Packers backup corners have played like the team's second and third cornerback on the depth chart have early this season.

I agree that it's tough to perform on a decent level with the top three players at the position not being available but there's no reason to hold on to guys obviously not being able to cover NFL receivers. A street free agent at least might end up being a decent addition.

 

[Un4GivN]

Well, as I've said before unfortunately the Packers backup corners have played like the team's second and third cornerback on the depth chart have early this season.

I agree that it's tough to perform on a decent level with the top three players at the position not being available but there's no reason to hold on to guys obviously not being able to cover NFL receivers. A street free agent at least might end up being a decent addition.

I do see your point in all of this, but if the NFL is a pretty intense place to judge talent. You don't find DRC and Josh Normans chilling on their couch halfway through the season. And even if they were they would not be in NFL shape or know the playbook..

Not to mention, guys like that get paid crazy amounts of money... While I do agree that maybe, somewhere? Some guy is sitting on his couch that could play better than Goodson. The odds would tell me with all of the teams needing actual non-fill in starters, the talent pool is pretty tapped this time of year.

 

[RRyder]

There's no doubt that Rodgers has struggled over the last 17 games but I would argue that he has been average over that period.



Rodgers has a passer rating of 84.1 over his last 17 games, which aftee looking it up is indeed below the league average of 90.9 for this season.



I'm not arguing that Rodgers has performed at a high level over the past 17 games but that the Packers need elite play out of him to be a contender.

And I'd argue that simply average play would make this team better.

Since week 5 last year here is Rodgers rankings out 36 qualified QBs in Completion pct, ypa and QBR

Comp pct: 35th at 58%
Yds per att: 35th at 6.3
QBR: 20th at 60

*note that the only players he's ahead of in two of those categories are the corpse of Peyton Manning in completion percentage and Jonny freaking Manziel in yards per attempt*

Those are BAD numbers for the 1st two and below average average for the one that's easy to skew.

Over that time we're still 8-9 with strait up BAD QB play. It doesn't take a leap to believe that they don't need "ELITE" QB play to be successful and that "slightly above average" QB play would be enough

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I do see your point in all of this, but if the NFL is a pretty intense place to judge talent. You don't find DRC and Josh Normans chilling on their couch halfway through the season. And even if they were they would not be in NFL shape or know the playbook..

Not to mention, guys like that get paid crazy amounts of money... While I do agree that maybe, somewhere? Some guy is sitting on his couch that could play better than Goodson. The odds would tell me with all of the teams needing actual non-fill in starters, the talent pool is pretty tapped this time of year.

It's true that it's tough to find a talented cornerback at this time of the year. Thompson could have done a better job of evaluating the talent level at the position before the start of the season though.

And I'd argue that simply average play would make this team better.

I agree that average quarterback play would have made the Packers better over the last 17 games but I stick to my opinion that the team needs Rodgers to perform at an elite level to be a Super Bowl contender.

 

[Sanguine camper]

There is a reason Rodgers play has swooned. The WR is vastly overrated and lacks a deep threat. Does anybody drop more passes than the Packers? When Rodgers gets the ball off in rythm, he puts the ball on the money. When nobody is open and his internal 3 second clock goes off, he is throwing off his back leg and not stepping into throws. As soon as the Packers field a receiving corps that is even average. Rodgers will again be in MVP form. The TE position is a catastrophe. They had no depth beyond an injury plagued Jared Cook, and now they are last in the league in TE play. That's not Rodgers fault.

 

[Half Empty]

There is a reason Rodgers play has swooned. The WR is vastly overrated and lacks a deep threat. Does anybody drop more passes than the Packers? When Rodgers gets the ball off in rythm, he puts the ball on the money. When nobody is open and his internal 3 second clock goes off, he is throwing off his back leg and not stepping into throws. As soon as the Packers field a receiving corps that is even average. Rodgers will again be in MVP form. The TE position is a catastrophe. They had no depth beyond an injury plagued Jared Cook, and now they are last in the league in TE play. That's not Rodgers fault.

Apparently so - http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-receiver-drops-percentage/2016/

 

[OldSchool101]

Well almost everyone nationally disagrees with that assessment. Prior to the season most were saying we had top 3 talent level

I think talent and seasoning are similar
To accuracy and precision Where seasoning = accuracy
And talent = precision
You need both to be successful. You can be precise and throw darts at double 9 all day, even splitting darts, but if your goal is a bullseye? it's irrelevant how much talent you have until you can hone that into becoming skilled at hitting the bullseye

 

[Poppa San]

Apparently so -

They may be very generous giving GB only 5 drops but then they'd rate all the teams the same, thus the position on the list would be relatively the same.