Official DE Datone Jones thread

[HardRightEdge]

Jones won't start week 1 but I bet he starts week 17

Oh, he'll be a starter week 1 in the sense that Heyward is a starter...a core nickel player for 65 - 70% of the snaps. Mike Neal just got bumped down the depth chart and it doesn't look like Worthy will be ready. I would not be surprised to see Jones get 40 snaps opening day. We drafted the "new age" guy to help neutralize "new age" offenses as the story goes...if not against SF, then who and when?

NOTE: We also drafted an "old age" DE/NT to mix it up with Pickett and Raji. Going first round for Jones had nothing to do with "new age" over "old age"...it had to do with perceived value and limited "new age" options further down in the draft.

In fact, I hate this term "new age"...3-4 defenses have been looking for these kinds of guys for the better part of a decade, preferably with 3-down ability.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

I don't know much about the guy, but as HRE opined a little earlier he appears to be well suited to a 4 DL front. On paper, you don't know whether he's a great based 34 option right off, but I don't know if he needs to be right away.

Jones played in a 34 defense at UCLA, from what I have read, they run a very similar defense to ours. He is still going to have to get up to playing at NFL speed, but If all goes well in camp, I see him as an immediate contributor. Wouldn't it be awesome if Jones took Kaperpunk out for the season in his first game. Not that I want to see Kaperpunk hurt

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

Oh, he'll be a starter week 1 in the sense that Heyward is a starter...a core nickel player for 65 - 70% of the snaps. Mike Neal just got bumped down the depth chart and it doesn't look like Worthy will be ready. I would not be surprised to see Jones get 40 snaps opening day. We drafted the "new age" guy to help neutralize "new age" offenses as the story goes...if not against SF, then who and when?

NOTE: We also drafted an "old age" DE/NT to mix it up with Pickett and Raji. Going first round for Jones had nothing to do with "new age" over "old age"...it had to do with perceived value and limited "new age" options further down in the draft.

If fact, I hate this term "new age"...3-4 defenses have been looking for these kinds of guys for the better part of a decade, preferably with 3-down ability.

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius.

 

[rodell330]

If he helps stop the read option why not start him week 1?

 

[HardRightEdge]

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius.

If our charkra's can get aligned on the O-Line, our potential fully actualized at the safety position, and our ILBs can grow some sacred crystals in their jock straps, we just might have something!

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

If our charkra's can get aligned on the O-Line, our potential fully actualized at the safety position, and our ILBs can grow some sacred crystals in their jock straps, we just might have something!

Don't forget the magnetic bracelets, mood rings would be nice. Let us see the state of the players aura in real time.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Don't forget the magnetic bracelets, mood rings would be nice. Let us see the state of the players aura in real time.

I defer to my colleague from California.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If he helps stop the read option why not start him week 1?

I guess it's fun to get all wound about over the latest new new thing. But in the end, the game evolves, it doesn't leap, and you need to be prepared to stop all those old boring things, like Gore running behind Staley.

After 2011, the spark setting everybody's hair on fire was the need to fix things to beat the Giants, a team that did not make the playoffs in 2012 and that has now dismantled the D-Line that beat us.

Building a team with an eye toward defeating one other in particular is a mugs game. You'll end up perpetually chasing your tail.

With respect to SF, lets begin at the beginning. We had a terrible game plan. We went man D all day with the idea that we'd make K beat us with his legs, not his arm. When he began beating us with his legs, it became one hot ball of confusion. Capers -2. The execution was stinky as well, but you can expect that when the game plan isn't working...confidence flagged and the ball of confusion got progressively hotter to the point where K was running or throwing as the whim would strike him.

A DE who happens to run 4.8 is not going to fix what ailed. A better game plan and better execution might have helped, wouldn't you say?

As an aside, Walden and the D-Line took a lot of heat for that mess. But Burnett in particular should have been singled out as well...one of those big K runs that people like to hang on Walden was blown contain by Burnett. Woodson's slow footedness in the back end sure didn't help either.

Don't get me wrong. I like the Jones pick...better than the Perry pick anyway. But not because he's some new fangled toy...rather because he's a better pass rusher than the guys we have.

I will say this, though...if Jones could drop 10 lbs and move to OLB and Perry could pack on 15 lbs. and move to DE, we might have something special.

 

[HyponGrey]

If he helps stop the read option why not start him week 1?

Because he needs to gain weight and actually win the job? I'm one of those guys that likes to have your best players for whatever package you're running out on the field. ATM Wilson is ... (Insert usual rant about why we do what we do and the strengths and weaknesses of certain players in schemes and subpackages. Should you require to see it, look up "Wilson" under my posts. I have to have said it six times or so)

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm one of those guys that likes to have your best players for whatever package you're running out on the field.

I'm not in total disagreement, but there are certain problems with that thinking:

1. The opposition does not give you their play in advance. There are lots of tweener situations over the course of a game. Start with 1st down...run or pass? 2nd. and 5...which is it? 3rd. and 2?

2. No huddle...you better have some 3 down players out there and they better be well conditioned. And you should be getting your 3 down players out of the first and second round.

I think what's needed is to find guys who are good in either run or pass, and at least OK in the other aspect of the game. If they're good in one aspect but stink in the other, their value will be in limited snaps in obvious situations, while being particularly vulnerable if we happen to have the wrong package on the field or go to a defensive audible.

 

[easyk83]

Jones is 283 pounds and he looks like he was carved out of granite, guy might not even have a single ounce of fat on him. With his workout numbers and game tape, he's physically ready to play. He doesn't need another 5-10 pounds of muscle, if he needs any additional weight he'll likely pick it up before T-camp and maybe a few pounds of fat for some leverage.

 

[slaughter25]

Because he needs to gain weight and actually win the job? I'm one of those guys that likes to have your best players for whatever package you're running out on the field. ATM Wilson is ... (Insert usual rant about why we do what we do and the strengths and weaknesses of certain players in schemes and subpackages. Should you require to see it, look up "Wilson" under my posts. I have to have said it six times or so)

Most important thing you said there was win the job. In my eyes Datone Jones is a bit more athletic version of Wilson. Both play the run as their forte but I think Datone has more explosion and pass rush. So if he can come out and WIN the job from Wilson in camp I see no reason why he shouldn't be starting week 1.

 

[slaughter25]

I'm not in total disagreement, but there are certain problems with that thinking:

1. The opposition does not give you their play in advance. There are lots of tweener situations over the course of a game. Start with 1st down...run or pass? 2nd. and 5...which is it? 3rd. and 2?

2. No huddle...you better have some 3 down players out there and they better be well conditioned. And you should be getting your 3 down players out of the first and second round.

I think what's needed is to find guys who are good in either run or pass, and at least OK in the other aspect of the game. If they're good in one aspect but stink in the other, their value will be in limited snaps in obvious situations, while being particularly vulnerable if we happen to have the wrong package on the field or go to a defensive audible.

Bingo. Hit the nail on the head. That's why I think we decided to go with Jones at 26. He is an above average run stopper with an OK pass rush game that features a pretty explosive first step and very active hands. If he can use his instincts and continue to do what he does well against the run. Then work more on the pass rush he could be a good player for GB for a long while.

 

[HardRightEdge]

He is an above average run stopper with an OK pass rush game that features a pretty explosive first step and very active hands.

I question this. He looks like a gap player from the highlight clips, working from quickness. I'm not convinced he can hold an edge against NFL OTs. You know, if he had played in the SEC I might have a little more confidence about his ability to work off big body studs.

Like I said before, we'll find out in week 1 when Joe Staley goes to stone him, provided he's out there at 5 tech.

 

[slaughter25]

I question this. He looks like a gap player from the highlight clips, working off quickness. I'm not convinced he can hold an edge against NFL OTs. You know, if he had played in the SEC I might have a little more confidence about his ability to work off big body studs.

Like I said before, we'll find out in week 1 when Joe Staley goes to stone him, provided he's out there at 5 tech.

Yeah watching highlight tapes I could see how it would be pretty easy to make that deduction. Most of those plays he blows by a pulling lineman or simply beats them out of their stance and into the backfield those are the plays you see in a highlight reel. Not claiming to be an expert by any stretch of the word. But when watching several games of his film he is strong enough to set the edge against the tackles he faces when being asked to do so. Cant really blame the guy for not beating guys he never got to play against. I do know that his work at senior bowl week was described by a few writers as dominant.

And you sure are right if he does put the work in between now and then and pushes his way into some base 3-4 snaps on opening day he will have a very serious test in front of him and I'm guessing there will be some pretty good evidence for or against his ability to play 5 tech for us.

 

[13 Times Champs]

I will say this, though...if Jones could drop 10 lbs and move to OLB and Perry could pack on 15 lbs. and move to DE, we might have something special.

Interesting comment. We probably both think Perry's skills are better suited to the DE position . I just question whether Perry could make himself big enough???

I like the Jones pick much better than Perry as well.

 

[easyk83]

I question this. He looks like a gap player from the highlight clips, working from quickness. I'm not convinced he can hold an edge against NFL OTs. You know, if he had played in the SEC I might have a little more confidence about his ability to work off big body studs.

Like I said before, we'll find out in week 1 when Joe Staley goes to stone him, provided he's out there at 5 tech.

Yep playing against trash Olines like Stanford and USC will really make you look better than you are.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yeah watching highlight tapes I could see how it would be pretty easy to make that deduction. Most of those plays he blows by a pulling lineman or simply beats them out of their stance and into the backfield those are the plays you see in a highlight reel. Not claiming to be an expert by any stretch of the word. But when watching several games of his film he is strong enough to set the edge against the tackles he faces when being asked to do so. Cant really blame the guy for not beating guys he never got to play against. I do know that his work at senior bowl week was described by a few writers as dominant.

And you sure are right if he does put the work in between now and then and pushes his way into some base 3-4 snaps on opening day he will have a very serious test in front of him and I'm guessing there will be some pretty good evidence for or against his ability to play 5 tech for us.

This is more or less the balanced perspective I tend to appreciate.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yep playing against trash Olines like Stanford and USC will really make you look better than you are.

O-Linemen drafted:

Stanford: 0
USC: 1 (Holmes in the 4th. round)
PAC 12: 5 (Long in the 1st. round; 4 guys in the 4th. - 6th. rounds including our guy Bakhtiari; 1 of the 5 was Jones' teammate)
SEC: 8 (including some guys named Joeckel, Fluker, Warmack, Warford and Barrett Jones)

NFL.com also created lists of undrafted pro prospects, many of whom are already signed as UFAs post-draft. The SEC has 7 O-Line guys in this category; the PAC 12 has 2.

I think it's universally recognized that the SEC is alone at the top. The SEC accounted for 1/4 of all draftees with 63, more than double the number of the second place ACC conference with 31. The PAC 12 had 28 picks.

In other words, if a guy plays in the SEC the odds he's lining up against a future pro are double or more compared to playing anywhere else. Maybe our man Boyd ought to get a little more love for the effort.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Interesting comment. We probably both think Perry's skills are better suited to the DE position . I just question whether Perry could make himself big enough???

I like the Jones pick much better than Perry as well.

I seriously doubt Perry could put on more pounds. He already packed on 15 lbs. for his Combine to sell himself as a 4-3 DE. I don't think there's more room there. My comment was more an illustration of an idea.

Perry moves and plays like a DE; Jones has the look of a guy who plays quick with good hips and some bend like he has some LB genes.

My first take on Jones is that we could see him drop in coverage from time to time in a disguised blitz (that would get Ponder's head spinning). Or he could be very interesting rushing with his hand in the dirt from the 9 tech in nickel as some 3-4 defenses do from time to time (Houston comes to mind), however we've never seen this from Capers and probably never will.

 

[texaspackerbacker]

Jones played in a 34 defense at UCLA, from what I have read, they run a very similar defense to ours. He is still going to have to get up to playing at NFL speed, but If all goes well in camp, I see him as an immediate contributor. Wouldn't it be awesome if Jones took Kaperpunk out for the season in his first game. Not that I want to see Kaperpunk hurt

hahahaha A POSTER with a MEAN STREAK - I like it - you can't coach that kind of meanness. This guy was my first choice for a first round pick a long time ago. He will be what we've been lacking since Cullen Jenkins and then some. Yeah, he should help against running QBs, but he is a lot more than that. He will enhance the rush on traditional QBs and improve the D against the run all at the same time. We didn't need a big clod; We needed somebody exactly like Datone Jones.

 

[Jordyruns]

O-Linemen drafted:

Stanford: 0
USC: 1 (Holmes in the 4th. round)
PAC 12: 5 (Long in the 1st. round; 4 guys in the 4th. - 6th. rounds including our guy Bakhtiari; 1 of the 5 was Jones' teammate)
SEC: 8 (including some guys named Joeckel, Fluker, Warmack, Warford and Barrett Jones)

NFL.com also created lists of undrafted pro prospects, many of whom are already signed as UFAs post-draft. The SEC has 7 O-Line guys in this category; the PAC 12 has 2.

I think it's universally recognized that the SEC is alone at the top. The SEC accounted for 1/4 of all draftees with 63, more than double the number of the second place ACC conference with 31. The PAC 12 had 28 picks.

In other words, if a guy plays in the SEC the odds he's lining up against a future pro are double or more compared to playing anywhere else. Maybe our man Boyd ought to get a little more love for the effort.

This is very true but I am not too worried about it after seeing his performance at the senior bowl, as Mike Mayock pointed out he actually beat Fischer on an inside move and was the only one to do so all week.

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[easyk83]

O-Linemen drafted:

Stanford: 0
USC: 1 (Holmes in the 4th. round)
PAC 12: 5 (Long in the 1st. round; 4 guys in the 4th. - 6th. rounds including our guy Bakhtiari; 1 of the 5 was Jones' teammate)
SEC: 8 (including some guys named Joeckel, Fluker, Warmack, Warford and Barrett Jones)

NFL.com also created lists of undrafted pro prospects, many of whom are already signed as UFAs post-draft. The SEC has 7 O-Line guys in this category; the PAC 12 has 2.

I think it's universally recognized that the SEC is alone at the top. The SEC accounted for 1/4 of all draftees with 63, more than double the number of the second place ACC conference with 31. The PAC 12 had 28 picks.

In other words, if a guy plays in the SEC the odds he's lining up against a future pro are double or more compared to playing anywhere else. Maybe our man Boyd ought to get a little more love for the effort.

No one disputes that the SEC is the top athletic conference in the Country. However I would argue that over the last few years USC and Stanford are comparable to any two schools in the USC in terms of NFL caliber O-line produced. USC produced back to back top ten O-line selections in the 2011 and 2012 drafts.

 

[HardRightEdge]

This is very true but I am not too worried about it after seeing his performance at the senior bowl, as Mike Mayock pointed out he actually beat Fischer on an inside move and was the only one to do so all week.

I'm aware of Mayock's assessment. You must not have read my earlier posts on the matter.

I like Jones a lot for his pass rush skills. I have gone so far as to suggest he might make a better OLB than Perry...that's a bit of a stretch but it illustrates an idea.

My concern is this: a first round pick should be a 3-down player and I have reservations about his ability to play 5-tech in the NFL against the run.

I admit to being a quaint anachronism. I believe the running game can be more that a QB with a wild hair up his a*ss, and that tailbacks running the ball behind skilled offensive tackles can gash you...and leave a scar.

 

[HardRightEdge]

USC produced back to back top ten O-line selections in the 2011 and 2012 drafts.

I thought I saw some ghosts on Jones' senior tape. This explains it.