No Rebuild on the Horizon

[GreenNGold_81]

"all the signs indicate that Rodgers is coming back". I've read that a few times. I think if he's coming back and has indicated that to the staff he'd come out and say it on Pat's show. There's no benefit to him withholding that information. I think the team has to make moves now, and they're hoping he comes back and the moves are intended to help get under the cap (which would have been done anyway). Getting his old QB coach will help Love mature just as much, if not more so than it would help Rodgers.

 

[OldSchool101]

If this is what we get when you're tired...

That’s hilarious. I suppose I’m ultra guilty. I’ll try to keep it to 100 words or less.

 

[realitybytez]

Love needs time & he lost a year, as did others, due to covid.

what i heard is . . .

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[Deleted member 6794]

another person who doesn't understand english.

Actually you don't have any clue about how the cap works.

In a twist, which I find highly improbable, is it possible that the Packers are making all these moves to try to put themselves in a better position to win games with Love under center, to show that they made the right decisions?

Instead of just biting the bullet, maybe they intend showing everyone how brilliant they are? Ever thought of that? If they did actually win enough games this coming year with Love at QB, and made the playoffs, they'd be lauded as geniuses by some.

I haven't. Just saying.....

I don't believe the Packers are currently talented enough on offense to win a lot of games while not featuring an elite quarterback.

Therefore, if the team doesn't expect Rodgers back it would have been smart to cut the losses now, right the cap situation, add young talent via the draft and might be competitive again in a year or two.

But I still can see a scenario where the team moves on to Love and doesn't tear down the roster in order to give him the best chance to succeed and in order to give them a clear picture of what they're working with.

I'm not suggesting Love won't develop into a decent quarterback at the NFL level. While the early returns aren't promising it's way too early to make a fair evaluation about him.

My point is that without Rodgers a drop-off in performance is all but guaranteed to happen anyway, therefore I would prefer to right the cap situation next year instead of pushing a ton of money into future seasons which will handicap the rebuild that would start in 2022.

It's not really a twist. Whether Aaron Rodgers, Jordan Love, or Voyageur is the quarterback of the club next season, the Packers have to get back under the cap regardless. Most of these moves have to be done no matter whichever direction we go. They will just need more if they need to fit Rodgers and Adams in there too.

It's true the Packers had to make moves to get under the cap. But the ones they actually made strongly indicates the team expects Rodgers to be back. Otherwise they could have made some others to create enough cap space.

That’s another cheap shot at Love
Did the Packers know that 2020 was going to be a blown Covid season?
Did you actually believe #12 would come back after 2 seasons of slight regression and have MVP caliber seasons? Nobody knew that.

He’s had ONE full season Captain, you’re acting like Jordan been here 4 years.
Again. It’s fine not to like the selection, i didn’t at the time I was kinda discouraged we did that to Aaron. Yet saying Love should’ve been better sooner just shows me you have to “reach” to supply a proper argument. Which reinforces you are protecting your premature position on Love

It's not a cheap shot at Love at all. A team drafting a quarterback in the first round needs to take advantage of him being on a rookie deal as long as possible.

It's a terrible idea to use such a high pick on a QB not expected to contribute during his first four years in the league though.

From a 2020 draft perspective and not using current information, Rodgers contract expires after 2022 with an “out” after 2021. Love has a potential 5th year option that takes him potentially through the 2024 season.

First of all, at the time of the 2020 draft Rodgers was under contract through the '23 season, the team shortened the deal by a year last offseason.

The fifth year option would cost the Packers $20 million to retain Love for the 2024 season, hardly a decent deal for an unproven quarterback.

Man up and say you don’t like the player is all I’m saying.

Most of you don't understand that it's not about Love at all. It was a mistake to select a quarterback at that point. Period.

"all the signs indicate that Rodgers is coming back". I've read that a few times. I think if he's coming back and has indicated that to the staff he'd come out and say it on Pat's show. There's no benefit to him withholding that information. I think the team has to make moves now, and they're hoping he comes back and the moves are intended to help get under the cap (which would have been done anyway). Getting his old QB coach will help Love mature just as much, if not more so than it would help Rodgers.

The Packers don't need to make any move until March 8th when they need to decide if to tag Adams. Until then there's no reason to make any public announcements.

 

[realitybytez]

Actually you don't have any clue about how the cap works.

hey, i get that you are the resident cap expert. i'm not challenging your understanding of the cap. this was simply a matter of semantics. either you have cap space or you don't. the packers don't. no cap space has been cleared yet. but i am finished with this pointless argument, and i bow to your superior knowledge of the salary cap.

 

[OldSchool101]

Most of you don't understand that it's not about Love at all. It was a mistake to select a quarterback at that point. Period.

I was surprised as anyone. But to be fair, go back and look at Rodgers year to year stat progression (or regression) from 2008 to 2019. Tell us what % of folks would’ve projected him to win 2 MVP titles starting in 2020. So it’s easy to say that now, it wasn’t after the 2019 season though.

You could even say that the worst thing that might have happened has happened. Rodgers plays lights out etc.. and if Rodgers excels after you draft his successor? Great!
If Rodgers goes down? you got plan B.
If Rodgers declines? you got plan A

I’m obviously not alone in that thinking because several experts in the field mocked a possible QB to the Packers late Day 1 and they had zero relationship to the Packers other than focusing on positional needs vs available late Day 1 options. Add to that m? A group of some very experienced personnel members in GB thought it was a good use of resources. Why do you think some draft experts and an entire staff did that? To make Rodgers mad? To buck us fans?


Aside from the Love draft move.. . Has Brian Gutenkunst graded poorly as a GM overall? Do you think Gutey arbitrarily used his best draft selection on some unknown in the Mountain West that had 2.5 seasons experience without immense thought of calculated risks?? Did Gutey look upset or stunned to you during the draft? Does he possibly see something you don’t?
Captain. You either trust a GM or you don’t to make tough decisions, yet many fans want to pick n choose by playing novice GM in some critical fashion after the fact. I can assure you that our problems are minuscule compared to the vast majority of teams. I would even go as far as to say most teams would LOVE to have our dilemma!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I was surprised as anyone. But to be fair, go back and look at Rodgers year to year stat progression (or regression) from 2008 to 2019. Tell us what % of folks would’ve projected him to win 2 MVP titles starting in 2020. So it’s easy to say that now, it wasn’t after the 2019 season though.

While Rodgers didn't perform up to his standards for periods before the 2020 draft the suggestion of his imminent demise was greatly exaggerated.

There's no doubt he had a great start to the season in 2017 before getting injured in the game at Minnesota. It's true that his completion and touchdown percentage dropped over the next two seasons but he still threw for 51 TDs and only six interceptions.

Taking into consideration that McCarthy's system had gotten stale and Rodgers had to learn a new system there was reason to be confident in him being able to bounce back from some down seasons by his standards.

I’m obviously not alone in that thinking because several experts in the field mocked a possible QB to the Packers late Day 1 and they had zero relationship to the Packers other than focusing on positional needs vs available late Day 1 options. Add to that m? A group of some very experienced personnel members in GB thought it was a good use of resources. Why do you think some draft experts and an entire staff did that? To make Rodgers mad? To buck us fans?

As you might have realized by now I don't give a damn about the opinion of self-proclaimed experts.

My guess about what happened with Gutekunst and within the Packers organization is that he forced the issue of replacing Rodgers the same way he saw Thompson successfully find Favre's successor.

The problem with that is that he ignored that the situation the Packers found themselves in was completely different than in 2005 and that Love wasn't a potential #1 overall draft pick.

Aside from the Love draft move.. . Has Brian Gutenkunst graded poorly as a GM overall? Do you think Gutey arbitrarily used his best draft selection on some unknown in the Mountain West that had 2.5 seasons experience without immense thought of calculated risks?? Did Gutey look upset or stunned to you during the draft? Does he possibly see something you don’t?
Captain. You either trust a GM or you don’t to make tough decisions, yet many fans want to pick n choose by playing novice GM in some critical fashion after the fact. I can assure you that our problems are minuscule compared to the vast majority of teams. I would even go as far as to say most teams would LOVE to have our dilemma!

I agree that overall Gutekunst has done a good job as the team's general manager.

That doesn't mean I have to agree with every move he makes. Therefore I won't ever get on board with him trading up in the first round to select Love two years ago.

 

[OldSchool101]

Taking into consideration that McCarthy's system had gotten stale and Rodgers had to learn a new system there was reason to be confident in him being able to bounce back from some down seasons by his standards.



As you might have realized by now I don't give a damn about the opinion of self-proclaimed experts.

My guess about what happened with Gutekunst and within the Packers organization is that he forced the issue of replacing Rodgers the same way he saw Thompson successfully find Favre's successor.

The problem with that is that he ignored that the situation the Packers found themselves in was completely different than in 2005 and that Love wasn't a potential #1 overall draft pick.



I agree that overall Gutekunst has done a good job as the team's general manager.

That doesn't mean I have to agree with every move he makes. Therefore I won't ever get on board with him trading up in the first round to select Love two years ago.

Unfortunately each move is domino chip that is interrelated to other moves, so you might not like every move, but the choices are connected and intertwined. That goes for previous season and post season moves in FA and the draft. You either support a Manager or you don’t and the sporadic waffling by defending your individual opinion makes that support disingenuous.

Separately. I believe the Love draft move 100% put fire under Aaron and was directly responsible for his increase in productivity. You don’t just fluctuate 22 additional TD’s by chance
As you might have realized by now I don't give a damn about the opinion of self-proclaimed experts.
I’m quite sure they feel likewise

 

[Phil Young]

Didn't Ted Thompson draft on best available player NOT need?

Have we stuck to that ideal or modified it somewhat?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Unfortunately each move is domino chip that is interrelated to other moves, so you might not like every move, but the choices are connected and intertwined. That goes for previous season and post season moves in FA and the draft. You either support a Manager or you don’t and the sporadic waffling by defending your individual opinion makes that support disingenuous.

I'm here to support the Packers and not Brian Gutekunst. He has made several terrific moves which I have given credit for but there have been some I don't agree with. I don't see any reason to not criticize him for those.

I believe the Love draft move 100% put fire under Aaron and was directly responsible for his increase in productivity. You don’t just fluctuate 22 additional TD’s by chance

Rodgers knowing the system significantly better in his second season in it had far more to do with his play improving than Love being drafted.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Didn't Ted Thompson draft on best available player NOT need?

Have we stuck to that ideal or modified it somewhat?

There's not a single general manager in the league who has drafted the best player available every time regardless of position. Need definitely factors into those decisions.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm here to support the Packers and not Brian Gutekunst. He has made several terrific moves which I have given credit for but there have been some I don't agree with.

That’s all fine and good. I like to support my team further, I might be critical initially of a move or transaction (similar to you) yet I change gears and look for ways to move forward vs getting stuck in the past (which is very easy to do of not checked). I tend to look for ways to grow even if the cards I’m dealt are not preferable.

Love is a nothing more than a backup QB with an Avenue to go if Rodgers bails, which is logical when you consider the personality displayed by #12. Would we honestly rather be using our Day 1 at QB this draft? After all, That was the alternative and many in here even called the year 2022 spot to draft a replacement QB. If you recall that discussion was beaten to a pulp back 3-4 seasons ago.

Maybe I’m just too forward looking- optimistic but it beats the alternative.
I’m glad we have our Day 1 to use this draft outside of the QB room, we will need it desperately at other positions. Just what IF our Day 1 2022 draft selection ended in putting us over the hump THIS season?

I’m not all that concerned about that late Day 1 selection in 2020

 

[El Guapo]

It's true the Packers had to make moves to get under the cap. But the ones they actually made strongly indicates the team expects Rodgers to be back. Otherwise they could have made some others to create enough cap space.

All it strongly indicates is that the team wants Rodgers to be back, not that they expect him back. They had to start making these specific moves before Rodgers' decision. They don't have the luxury to wait until after his decision to make less-bold cap moves. They had to make the moves in front to show Rodgers that they were serious.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That’s all fine and good. I like to support my team further, I might be critical initially of a move or transaction (similar to you) yet I change gears and look for ways to move forward vs getting stuck in the past (which is very easy to do of not checked).

In the NFL it takes time to fairly evaluate a draft pick. I didn't like the selection and unfortunately Love hasn't done anything to change my mind up until now.

Love is a nothing more than a backup QB with an Avenue to go if Rodgers bails, which is logical when you consider the personality displayed by #12.

Smart teams don't spend first round picks on players that are nothing more than backups entering their third season.

I’m glad we have our Day 1 to use this draft outside of the QB room, we will need it desperately at other positions. Just what IF our Day 1 2022 draft selection ended in putting us over the hump THIS season?

I would have preferred a day 1 pick in the 2020 draft to have had the chance to put the Packers over the hump.

All it strongly indicates is that the team wants Rodgers to be back, not that they expect him back. They had to start making these specific moves before Rodgers' decision. They don't have the luxury to wait until after his decision to make less-bold cap moves. They had to make the moves in front to show Rodgers that they were serious.

It would have been foolish by the Packers to make that moves to create cap space if they didn't expect Rodgers to be back. There would have been other options available to get under the cap as well.

 

[El Guapo]

As usual, you are missing the point. Congratulations

 

[Deleted member 6794]

As usual, you are missing the point. Congratulations

You can be a smarta$$ about it all you want, the fact remains that the Packers front office would be stupid to make moves based on what they want to happen. They were better pretty damn sure about Rodgers coming back to justify making the moves they made.

 

[El Guapo]

You can be smug all you want as well but you don't know this for a fact, despite your usual way of presenting it all as such.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You can be smug all you want as well but you don't know this for a fact, despite your usual way of presenting it all as such.

Do you think it would be a good idea to have only $5 million of cap space available when approaching Adams about signing a long-term deal just because the Packers want him to agree to a deal that could fit under the cap in those circumstances??? Or would it be smart to have some more space available as he already told them he wants to be the highest paid receiver in the league???

 

[Mondio]

better to be a smartass than a ********

 

[Voyageur]

None of us can say with surety than anything specific is going to happen, except that the Packers will have to field a team this year, and ensuing years, within the confines of the restrictions that are there in the salary cap.

We'd all like to be a fly on the wall, listening in on conversations between Murphy, Ball, and Gutekunst, as they discuss the issues, and communications with players and their agents. It's not going to happen.

It reminds me of a friend of mine who said he could call the flip of a coin six times in a row. I told him he would be just as well off saying it would be heads six consecutive times. He said I was wrong.

After considering it for a while, he said although both are equally as probable happening, he felt more confident in calling each flip.

He didn't get past the second flip, when he called tails, and it was heads. No matter what we see as an avenue out of this mess, and for success, we're not going to be 100% right. It all depends on the human nature of the players involved, and the perspectives the people with the purse strings see, in each one of them.

Just like the coin flips, each one is it's own problem, and can effect the entire string of events.

 

[OldSchool101]

In the NFL it takes time to fairly evaluate a draft pick. I didn't like the selection and unfortunately Love hasn't done anything to change my mind up until now.

Well. Thats fine, but 1 full live game after 1 complete offseason isn’t really a fair evaluation imo.
Did you ever think for a second that the move for Love turned into the GBP aggressively extending Rodgers? Rodgers rise and Love’s slow start combined probably scared the staff to death!

I would have preferred a day 1 pick in the 2020 draft to have had the chance to put the Packers over the hump.

Quit living in the rear view mirror.. unless you want to put it in reverse you’ll eventually crash doing that

We should consider trading Love this year or next. He’d be a cheap contract with low risk for a QB needy team. Ideally you’d keep him 1 more season, but this year has medium demand and low supply at QB. Even as bad as you think he is, he’d likely garner a ~Day 2 selection if they deal him now with 2 full years of Rookie salary (or do a straight up trade for a veteran starter).

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well. Thats fine, but 1 full live game after 1 complete offseason isn’t really a fair evaluation imo.

As I have mentioned repeatedly it's far too early to fairly evaluate Love. My point is that the early returns aren't promising at all though.

Did you ever think for a second that the move for Love turned into the GBP aggressively extending Rodgers? Rodgers rise and Love’s slow start combined probably scared the staff to death!

I don't believe for a second that the motivation for drafting Love was to extend Rodgers. That doesn't make any sense.

We should consider trading Love this year or next. He’d be a cheap contract with low risk for a QB needy team. Ideally you’d keep him 1 more season, but this year has medium demand and low supply at QB. Even as bad as you think he is, he’d likely garner a ~Day 2 selection if they deal him now with 2 full years of Rookie salary (or do a straight up trade for a veteran starter).

I would be fine with the Packers trading Love for a reasonable compensation. They would be in dire need of adding a reliable backup in that case though.

 

[Phil Young]

Plus ca change.

I remember similar discussions regarding Rodgers & Favre