Moving on to 2016

[Vrill]

Sadly Cobb shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Welker... One of the most dynamic slot receivers of his time. With and without Moss. Put up 110 plus catches in 5 our of 6 years. People knew they were going to him and couldn't stop him. Same can not be said for Cobb. He's adequate at best right now. He was out gained by good ole JJ, who doesn't nearly have his speed.

Different systems. Patriots system is tailor made for WR's like Welker, Amendola and Eldeman. Their entire passing game is a short-intermediate system predicated on WR's that are more quick than fast. They are happy to nickle and dime their way down the field controlling the clock.

Our passing system is more about the splash plays down field. That hasn't been there this season. In years past, we were always ranked in the top 5 in the league in throws over 20+ yards. Not this season. We simply don't have the boundary WR's to stretch the field and that doesn't include the fact that our WR's cannot get open consistently. Nobody respects our WR's. Every defense plays our offense the same way. Its a problem. We are currently fitting a square peg into a round hole with our WR's. They simply do not fit the system that we are in. Jordy does and Jordy takes the heat off of other WR's and allows them to have big stats too (like we saw with Cobb last year) - There is a synergy there that we are missing and its showing. They both compliment each other nicely.

 

[tynimiller]

To go along with the above thought....it is proven TT can more often than not get a guy that is as good in the round he is taken or is better.....problem is a lot of the time he'd rather get 3 guys that out perform their 5th 6th and 7th round slots than fight for or trade up to get that bonafide 1st round talent that fell to the 2nd or the 3rd.

I think TT will get aggressive...if he doesn't I don't like our direction. We are still very good and solid team if healthy and I like our WR core with Nelson and Montgomery back and maybe JJ on a 1 year contract....but we gotta make some things happen.

If I were to bet...we get a OL in the FA's that may push one of our starters for the gig....worse case is a excellent experienced back up. We may do the same with ILB as well...otherwise it will be depth FA pickups than an aggressive draft.....at least this is what I hope for. I don't believe in breaking the bank in FA, it rarely ever works and must be done well (ala Woodson and White).

 

[Vrill]

So you liking a draft like when we went up to get Clay...that is kinda how I see this draft being...or atleast is what I hope they do.

Yep, exactly. TT needs to be un-TT like this offseason and be aggressive.

 

[Un4GivN]

Different systems. Patriots system is tailor made for WR's like Welker, Amendola and Eldeman. Their entire passing game is a short-intermediate system predicated on WR's that are more quick than fast. They are happy to nickle and dime their way down the field controlling the clock.

Our passing system is more about the splash plays down field. That hasn't been there this season. In years past, we were always ranked in the top 5 in the league in throws over 20+ yards. Not this season. We simply don't have the boundary WR's to stretch the field and that doesn't include the fact that our WR's cannot get open consistently. Its a problem. We are currently fitting a square peg into a round hole with our WR's. They simply do not fit the system that we are in. Jordy does and Jordy takes the heat off of other WR's and allows them to have big stats too (like we saw with Cobb last year) - There is a synergy there that we are missing and its showing. They both compliment each other nicely.

I don't know how you could even argue the talent between Welker and Cobb... They are just in different stratospheres. Watch their cuts, attention to detail.

Also, I guarantee you if Cobb was open every play. Rodgers would throw it to him. He's not. It's not a product of not wanting to throw short... It's a product of him not being open.

New England doesn't have a big play threat either... And Edelman was doing pretty good. It's not about the deep play threat. Cobb just can't get open. Does it make it easier if Jordy can stretch the field sure. But it's not a good excuse to not get open.

 

[Vrill]

Also, I guarantee you if Cobb was open every play. Rodgers would throw it to him. He's not. It's not a product of not wanting to throw short... It's a product of him not being open.

I don't think you read my entire post. Because I basically said the same thing you're saying there. Go back and re-read it.

 

[C-Lee]

I'm just asking here, but do we have no faith in Barrington at ILB?

 

[Vrill]

I'm just asking here, but do we have no faith in Barrington at ILB?

Unknown. Due to him not playing this season. He could have progressed and played nicely.

 

[C-Lee]

Unknown. Due to him not playing this season. He could have progressed and played nicely.

It would have been nice to have him this season.

 

[Vrill]

It would have been nice to have him this season.

Sure would have. Jordy too. But that is the nature of the beast. Injuries happen.

 

[Mondio]

I'm just asking here, but do we have no faith in Barrington at ILB?

I don't, I'm not sold on Ryan either, nice around the line, but too slow overall IMO. I think he's outplaying what Barrington brought us in the past already and he's just starting. I don't expect Barrington to come back faster and better.

 

[OldSchool101]

LBs are another position prone to injury. Having quality options to substitute is huge.
I like Sam, we could have done worse I also like his story, the taxi cab driver that ended up being like an uncle to him and what that did for him and his confidence.

 

[Pkrjones]

- ILB have Barrington returning and Carl Bradford still "learning" ILB. Need speed and coverage ability desperately.
- WR have Jordy returning as well as Ty Montgomery and (hopefully) Janis progressing. Not much room, and already have youth/speed.
- OL the cupboard is bare, and with Bakhtiari looking to be maxed-out (and still marginal) OT should be a high pick.
- TE all 3 currently on roster are replaceable by a better blocker and/or receiving threat.
- OLB needs to be a first-4 round priority with the possible vacancies by Peppers, Neal and/or Perry. CM3 belongs outside, exclusively, making ILB even more of a priority.
- RB needs some fresh, fast talent. Lacy (Thunder) needs a new "Lightning" minus the fumbling. MM also needs to figure-out NOT to run Lacy outside and making Starks (or new "Lightning") between the tackles.

 

[Half Empty]

I will never argue he is a full blown legit #1 TE....but for where we got him and what we expected I'm good with him. I fully expect us to keep our eye on TEs in FA and also the draft.

That was the point I was trying to make. The took him in the 3rd round when the majority of the projections were for the 6th. When a "who's that?" pick is that far out of position, he'd better be good.

 

[TJV]

To go along with the above thought....it is proven TT can more often than not get a guy that is as good in the round he is taken or is better.....problem is a lot of the time he'd rather get 3 guys that out perform their 5th 6th and 7th round slots than fight for or trade up to get that bonafide 1st round talent that fell to the 2nd or the 3rd.

IMO first round talent – as evaluated on draft day - is very, very rarely available late in the second or in the third round. I also think some have unrealistic expectations of how valuable lower round picks are. The Packers under Thompson average picking 27th. In the 2013 draft they picked 26th and here are the value of those picks according to Ourlad’s value chart:
1. 26th… 700 pts
2. 55th… 350 pts
3. 88th… 150 pts
4. 122nd… 50 pts
5. 159th… 27.8 pts
6. 193rd… 14.2 pts
7. 232nd… no value listed.

Trading the 1st, 5th, 6th, and 7th rounder would move them from 26 to 23 (760 pts) via this chart maybe. Add the 4th rounder and move up to about 21st (800 pts). Trading the last 3 picks plus their 2nd rounder would move them up from 55th to about 50th (400 pts.) maybe.

Of course I’m not saying these trade value charts are cast in stone. As a matter of fact according to this chart when Thompson traded a second rounder and two third rounders for the 26th pick in the 2009 draft to get Matthews, he “paid” 888 pts. for 700. (He had an extra third rounder because of the trade of a certain QB to the NY Jets.)

 

[Vrill]

I would love to see a fast RB in our offense as a change up. Someone who can get out into passing routes and catch balls too.

Someone like a Shane Vereen or Darren Sproles would be perfect.

 

[adambr2]

I would love to see a fast RB in our offense as a change up. Someone who can get out into passing routes and catch balls too.

Someone like a Shane Vereen or Darren Sproles would be perfect.

Matt Forte? Not likely to give you a 4.45 40 anymore, but as a pass-catching back he's pretty unmatched.

 

[Un4GivN]

Think if I was going for back, it would be more the Gio benard type. Forte is good, but not that much different than lacy in my opinion.

 

[adambr2]

Good news going into this offseason is that with Daniels signed, we don't need to concentrate much attention or money on internal signings as there aren't really any big fish remaining to pay this year. It'd be nice to bring Raji back, but he hasn't done enough to warrant a big payday here IMO. If he gets it elsewhere, so be it. As much as I'd heard Raji was miscast as a DE, he made more or less the same mediocre impact back in the middle.

Bad news is the number of potential holes we have to fill. ILB, TE, WR, RB, DE could call all reasonably be considered 'needs'. We're going to have to get creative.

 

[AKCheese]

Whiffed on too many lofty picks over the years hoping (unrealistically) that we'd get lucky on one of the plethora of late round picks TT likes to cling to. Our elite talent is almost non existant due to crappy 1st and second round picks. Three pro bowlers this year with Rodgers and Mathews selected more on reputation than current production.... And nobody you can really point to as getting "overlooked". Hard to have an elite team with very few "elite" players. Renember when Drew Brees was "all that and a bag of chips" .... Now? Just a fart in the wind....could happen here with Rodgers...not one bit beyond the pale

 

[yooperpackfan]

We're going to have to get creative.

Creativity doesn't seem to be a strong suit for either Thompson or McCarthy.
And if a person were to expect change from either one forget it.

 

[Mondio]

Whiffed on too many lofty picks over the years hoping (unrealistically) that we'd get lucky on one of the plethora of late round picks TT likes to cling to. Our elite talent is almost non existant due to crappy 1st and second round picks. Three pro bowlers this year with Rodgers and Mathews selected more on reputation than current production.... And nobody you can really point to as getting "overlooked". Hard to have an elite team with very few "elite" players. Renember when Drew Brees was "all that and a bag of chips" .... Now? Just a fart in the wind....could happen here with Rodgers...not one bit beyond the pale

I don't see this team devoid of "elite" players and most teams where people think they have 10 probowlers is more a artifact of winning than anything. Half those guys are no better than anyone else on any other team, they just happen to be playing on a team that is playing better overall in all facets and they get to go along for the ride.

Prior to this season starting i'm sure the polls would have looked a lot different based on past performance. For all sorts of reasons, this year didn't turn out that way. But preseason i'm sure we'd have Rodgers, Lacy, Sitton, possibly Lang, Cobb and Jordy pegged for the pro bowl. and on defense, Daniels, Matthews, Shields. Guys that are still pretty good, Peppers, Hyde, Dix, Raji.

I don't buy the notion that this team doesn't have talent, they aren't playing well on one side of the ball that's for sure, but ask this question last April and people think this is one of the most talented offenses in the league, and for good reason.

 

[milani]

Um.....we have injuries along the OL....if all starting 5 are healthy they are arguably one of the best units. I get desiring us to add...but we could spend money much wiser than on Okung.

Why does everyone hate on Richard Rogers so much? He is big, good blocker and has shown some impressive hands...he isn't your oober athletic style or monsterous Gronk style but solid and Arod is looking to him more and more which is a good sign. I agree for the right price I wouldn't shy away from a TE, but big money isn't worth it. YES, Watson is not a cheap FA.

RRogers would fit in more on a team that runs the football and does ddd

Um.....we have injuries along the OL....if all starting 5 are healthy they are arguably one of the best units. I get desiring us to add...but we could spend money much wiser than on Okung.

Why does everyone hate on Richard Rogers so much? He is big, good blocker and has shown some impressive hands...he isn't your oober athletic style or monsterous Gronk style but solid and Arod is looking to him more and more which is a good sign. I agree for the right price I wouldn't shy away from a TE, but big money isn't worth it. YES, Watson is not a cheap FA.

Richard would fit more as a back up and as a blocker primarily on running plays. Part of the negativity is that the Packers don't have a TE to complement him. And part of it is that his predecessor was such a beast. You watch the college bowl games and you see all these modern TEs stretching the field and wearing out LBs and Safeties and you wonder why we don't have someone like that. Back in the day 33% of the success of Lombardi's Power Sweep depended on the TE. Back then it was a dude named Ron Kramer. After he was traded the sweep was never quite as potent. Maybe we can start running the power sweep and Rogers will get his due.

 

[TJV]

RRogers would fit in more on a team that runs the football and does ddd

IMO the best thing that can be said for R Rodgers' run blocking is he is inconsistent. The reason for the negativity about him is he's not consistently a good run blocker, he lacks the speed to be much of a receiving threat, and he rarely does anything after the catch.

BTW, where did you come up with "33% of the success of Lombardi's Power Sweep depended on the TE"? The TE's block was important but IMO one of the easier blocks on the play - as opposed to the reach blocks required for example.

Speaking of Lombardi's sweep, one of the best stories I heard about it was told by John Madden (I've posted this before so if you've read it...). Madden was a young assistant NFL coach at the time Lombardi offered a clinic. Madden said he thought he knew a lot about football but wanted to see the famous coach. He sat in the back row for the eight-hour clinic. Lombardi’s topic for the entire eight hours was just one play, the famous Packers sweep. Madden was flabbergasted and humbled by the experience. At the end of the day, Madden was astonished by what had transpired and what he had learned. As he tells it, "I went in there cocky thinking I knew everything there was to know about football, and he spent eight hours talking about this one play. He talked for four hours, took a break, and came back and talked four more. I realized then that I actually knew nothing about football."

 

[milani]

IMO the best thing that can be said for R Rodgers' run blocking is he is inconsistent. The reason for the negativity about him is he's not consistently a good run blocker, he lacks the speed to be much of a receiving threat, and he rarely does anything after the catch.

BTW, where did you come up with "33% of the success of Lombardi's Power Sweep depended on the TE"? The TE's block was important but IMO one of the easier blocks on the play - as opposed to the reach blocks required for example.

Speaking of Lombardi's sweep, one of the best stories I heard about it was told by John Madden (I've posted this before so if you've read it...). Madden was a young assistant NFL coach at the time Lombardi offered a clinic. Madden said he thought he knew a lot about football but wanted to see the famous coach. He sat in the back row for the eight-hour clinic. Lombardi’s topic for the entire eight hours was just one play, the famous Packers sweep. Madden was flabbergasted and humbled by the experience. At the end of the day, Madden was astonished by what had transpired and what he had learned. As he tells it, "I went in there cocky thinking I knew everything there was to know about football, and he spent eight hours talking about this one play. He talked for four hours, took a break, and came back and talked four more. I realized then that I actually knew nothing about football."

Red Cochran was the line coach during those power sweep years and he was asked in 1964.
‘What the (heck) happened to our sweep? It isn’t going the way it used to.’ We had something like a 4-yard average instead of an 8.3. I don’t remember exactly.

Cochran goes, ‘Well, half of it is in Philadelphia (where Ringo was traded) and half of it is in Detroit (where Kramer signed).’ Ringo could make that onside cutoff, which many centers couldn’t do. He had really good quickness. And Ron was just a super tight end. He was like a big mule out there. The two of them were an integral part of (the sweep).”

Maybe 33% is not high enough.

 

[TJV]

Maybe 33% is not high enough.

Or maybe you just made up the 33% figure. Go back and watch Lombardi himself talk about the sweep. I'll guarantee he didn't spend 33% of the talk Madden attended talking about the TE.