Minkah Fitzpatrick went to Steelers

[sschind]

With the Steelers missing their QB, Miami wasn't going to accept anyone else's first.

They may have if it had been offered when the negotiations started rather than after Ben was injured. I don't know if the Dolphins planned on waiting until after week 2 to see which season destroying injury drove up the value or if it just worked out that way.

I'm also not so sure this was a smart move by the Steelers. They may need that #1 to find Ben's replacement.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Full terms of the Minkah Fitzpatrick trade:

— #Dolphins traded CB Minkah Fitzpatrick, a 4th rounder in 2020 and a 7th rounder in 2021
— #Steelers traded a 1st rounder in 2020, a 5th rounder in 2020 and a 6th rounder in 2021

I'm still shaking my head a bit. The Steelers are 0-2, lost their starting QB and didn't even look all that great with Big Ben. This could be a very high price they pay for a guy who wants to only play at CB. While he did have a good rookie season, he hasn't done all that much in his 2 games this year. I also wonder how much of his success last year was playing at Safety, a position he doesn't want to play?

Packers have big investments in their secondary (Amos, Alexander, King, Jackson, Savage), I would have viewed this as way too big of a luxury trade. Would MK have improved the Packers, probably, but at the opportunity cost of improving the team elsewhere.

His success last year was at slot CB, a position that it is VERY valuable in today's NFL. His lack of success this year is WHY he wanted to be traded; the dolphins had him lined up at DE at times! For the Steelers this trade doesn't make as much sense. For the Packers, this trade should have been a no-brainer. Those draft picks next year aren't helping the team THIS year, while Minkah would be VERY helpful. Rodgers isn't getting younger and whoever the Packers pick next year probably won't be off much help to the team for a couple years. So, rather than getting a great CB to help THIS year and for years to come, the Packers will get the mystery box next year that might help the team in 3 more years.

 

[AmishMafia]

Now if you are projecting the Packers to win the Super Bowl and that pick was #32, it might have been reasonable, but I still don't like giving up first rounders, unless you are getting a proven high impact player and I don't think Fitzpatrick is quite that just yet.

But if you use the pick in the draft, you are not getting any guarantees either.



This was unusual opportunity. Great CBs are not often traded 1 year in on their rookie deals.

My thoughts for the Pack, the risk here is that he is a malcontent. Otherwise our first would have been worth it. I would have only gone 2nd and a 4th.


Miami must like what they are seeing in Cleveland. They want to own 2021 draft.

They came out way ahead. Steeler pick probably 4-7th. Their own pick will be #1. Then they have Houstons pick. Watch them trade out of 1st for a bevy of picks in 2021.

 

[PackerDNA]

While you always have to be interested in getting a good young player, I just don't feel that this was the right move for this team at this time.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My thoughts for the Pack, the risk here is that he is a malcontent. Otherwise our first would have been worth it. I would have only gone 2nd and a 4th.

Before drafting Alexander, Jackson and Savage, as well as paying Amos a ton of money, I might have agreed with some that the Packers needed to go after Fitzpatrick and a first rounder was well worth the risk. Toss in the fact that King appears to possibly (fingers crossed) be healthy and I think investing a first rounder in MF would have been a luxury overspend on the Packers part. One that would probably improve the defense, but could later prevent you from upgrading the Offense, either by using that pick in a trade or selecting an offensive player in Rd 1 in 2020. 2 years ago, had that deal been available, I think many of us would have been wringing our hands together and clamoring for Gute to pull the trigger.

Also, even if Gute was somehow involved in negotiations with Miami, much like the Mack deal, the Packers probably loose out on matching Pittsburgh's offer, since I would guess that most now view the Steelers pick as potentially much more valuable.

 

[AmishMafia]

Before drafting Alexander, Jackson and Savage, as well as paying Amos a ton of money, I might have agreed with some that the Packers needed to go after Fitzpatrick and a first rounder was well worth the risk. Toss in the fact that King appears to possibly (fingers crossed) be healthy and I think investing a first rounder in MF would have been a luxury overspend on the Packers part. One that would probably improve the defense, but could later prevent you from upgrading the Offense, either by using that pick in a trade or selecting an offensive player in Rd 1 in 2020. 2 years ago, had that deal been available, I think many of us would have been wringing our hands together and clamoring for Gute to pull the trigger.

Also, even if Gute was somehow involved in negotiations with Miami, much like the Mack deal, the Packers probably loose out on matching Pittsburgh's offer, since I would guess that most now view the Steelers pick as potentially much more valuable.

There is a train of thought that you draft to strength. In the secondary, one weak link, can decrease the level of play. You need 5 DBs and we have, Amos, Alexander, Savage, king and (Brown, Jackson, or Williams). That 5th guy is a decrease. Having another star level player would really boost the defense. You could run a tight man knowing you didnt have to Savage cheat over because DB3 isnt able to cover as closely as you would like. This frees up more blitz options as you know on most plays you will have nobody open for 1.85 seconds. Extra time means more stunts, delays, etc available. There are synergies that would revererate throughout the defense.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There is a train of thought that you draft to strength. In the secondary, one weak link, can decrease the level of play. You need 5 DBs and we have, Amos, Alexander, Savage, king and (Brown, Jackson, or Williams). That 5th guy is a decrease. Having another star level player would really boost the defense. You could run a tight man knowing you didnt have to Savage cheat over because DB3 isnt able to cover as closely as you would like. This frees up more blitz options as you know on most plays you will have nobody open for 1.85 seconds. Extra time means more stunts, delays, etc available. There are synergies that would revererate throughout the defense.

All great points and there is absolutely no argument from me that Fitzpatrick could improve our defense. My rationale for not wanting to trade a first round pick on a DB right now is strictly that I think it would be a luxury that might look good now, but come back to bite us when we could have used that draft capital on another position of greater need. Whether you spend that draft pick on a trade or in the draft, it has a lot of value.

We all saw what happened to the rest of the team after TT poured a ton of draft stock into the secondary, I think piling more into a group of DB's who seem to be doing really well is like throwing lobster on top of steak and realizing after the great feast, you have no cab money to get home.

 

[sschind]

There is a train of thought that you draft to strength. In the secondary, one weak link, can decrease the level of play. You need 5 DBs and we have, Amos, Alexander, Savage, king and (Brown, Jackson, or Williams). That 5th guy is a decrease. Having another star level player would really boost the defense. You could run a tight man knowing you didnt have to Savage cheat over because DB3 isnt able to cover as closely as you would like. This frees up more blitz options as you know on most plays you will have nobody open for 1.85 seconds. Extra time means more stunts, delays, etc available. There are synergies that would revererate throughout the defense.

I get that and the biggest reason in my mind to have made the trade is that the draft pick isn't helping us this year so get someone in here who can. On the other hand I wonder how much that draft pick might help us in the future if it is sent on a WR or ILB where he may be more needed. That's not saying MF won't help in the future just that it may be more useful elsewhere. Of course we have to pick that position and he has to work out but that's part of the gamble as well. If we draft a safety with that pick I'll be scratching my head. I like our group (losing Greene sucks) and we may have a weak spot at #5 but is it worth giving up a 1st rounder for. maybe maybe not. This is one of those things for me where if it had happened fine if not fine as well.


Or in other words What Poker said.

 

[Stanger37]

It appears Miami definitely went with the possibility of the better draft pick as I believe the other players were KC, SEA, PHI and DAL.

However, as much as a dumpster fire the first two games were for the Steelers. I still have a hard time thinking they won't turn it around at some point. Cincy is a mess. Cleveland IMHO is a ticking timebomb. Baltimore will give teams a hard time but as it usually goes with running QBs, once teams have tape and learn tendencies, it begins to slowly decline. Pitts has a lot of young, cheap talent now if they can put it together and be disciplined they can put together a run.

Looking at the rest of the AFC, it is New England and Kansas City. AFC South is a mess. I can see Pitts sneaking into the WC possibly even into winning the division. Their offensive line isn't terrible. Mason and Vance connected last week. Build up a defense and not heavily rely on Mason and I think they can win.

And for the future for them, Mason, Conner, Juju, Washington, Minkah, Watt, Edmunds all on rookie deals for the next 2+ years. If BigBen retires (possibility) get his contract off the books and they have some money to spend in free agency if need be.

I am no Steelers fan by any means, I can't stand Tomlin and I would enjoy seeing them at the bottom of the barrel but too good of a franchise to sink to that level.

 

[Dantés]

I mean, you're assuming the mystery box (unknown draft pick) turns into a great player. That's not a guarantee but fans seem to ignore that pretty routinely.

You think that people don't realize that draft picks bust?

What you're ignoring is that value of 1st round picks when they are that high.

In 2018, the Colts got three extra 2nd round picks just to move back from #3 to #6.

In 2017, the 49ers got two 3rd round picks and a 4th round pick to move back one spot from #2 to #3.

When teams are willing to move back further, the hauls become massive. The Titans received two 1st round picks, two 2nd round picks, and two 3rd round picks to go from #1 to #15 in 2016. The Browns also received two 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick, a 3rd round pick, and a 4th round pick to move from #2 to #8 that same year.

And this is not to mention that the top 5 is where you most commonly find franchise QB's, which are the most valuable commodity in the game.

If the Steelers traded one of these massive hauls or a top flight QB prospect for Minkah, they screwed up. They're banking on Mason Rudolph carrying them to a much better record and thus a lower pick.

By your logic, why wouldn't Miami trade their first round pick in 2020 for Kevin King? Why would they choose the "mystery box" when they could have a good corner?

 

[greengold]

You think that people don't realize that draft picks bust?

What you're ignoring is that value of 1st round picks when they are that high.

In 2018, the Colts got three extra 2nd round picks just to move back from #3 to #6.

In 2017, the 49ers got two 3rd round picks and a 4th round pick to move back one spot from #2 to #3.

When teams are willing to move back further, the hauls become massive. The Titans received two 1st round picks, two 2nd round picks, and two 3rd round picks to go from #1 to #15 in 2016. The Browns also received two 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick, a 3rd round pick, and a 4th round pick to move from #2 to #8 that same year.

And this is not to mention that the top 5 is where you most commonly find franchise QB's, which are the most valuable commodity in the game.

If the Steelers traded one of these massive hauls or a top flight QB prospect for Minkah, they screwed up. They're banking on Mason Rudolph carrying them to a much better record and thus a lower pick.

By your logic, why wouldn't Miami trade their first round pick in 2020 for Kevin King? Why would they choose the "mystery box" when they could have a good corner?

I do agree the price for GB to better PIT’s offer was possibly too high. You’re right on that value of the pick MIA acquired from them.

Imagine, next year, being able to throw our R1 at the best WR or OT possible at #32...

 

[gbgary]

Packers need their first for an O player next season. i'd have done a 2nd or 3rd but not a 1st.

 

[Firethorn1001]

Imagine, next year, being able to throw our R1 at the best WR or OT possible at #32...

Maybe I'm off on your point, but barring a trade, if the Packers are at #32 that means they won the Super Bowl. And we are going to complain by saying 'Gee, bad value, they should have traded to Miami last year'

If that was your angle, then that truly shows that people aren't happy no matter what happens.

 

[greengold]

Yeah. We’re bringing the Lombardi Trophy back home this year. Had no other message than, “Cool! Let’s take a WR or an OT here!”

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe I'm off on your point, but barring a trade, if the Packers are at #32 that means they won the Super Bowl. And we are going to complain by saying 'Gee, bad value, they should have traded to Miami last year'

If that was your angle, then that truly shows that people aren't happy no matter what happens.

Well in THAT scenario, we have just won the Super Bowl, WITHOUT Minkah Fitzpatrick, so it would be a win win. SB + #32 pick still in hand.

 

[Dantés]

I do agree the price for GB to better PIT’s offer was possibly too high. You’re right on that value of the pick MIA acquired from them.

Imagine, next year, being able to throw our R1 at the best WR or OT possible at #32...

Yeah, I don't have any information that the Packers were prepared to offer their 1st round pick, but even if they had, the Dolphins, making the same calculation that Oakland did with Mack, would surely accept Pittsburgh's over anyone else's because it stands the best chance of being a really high pick.

 

[AmishMafia]

If that was your angle, then that truly shows that people aren't happy no matter what happens.

There is a thread started a few days ago where someone blew a gasket wanting a bunch of starters and backups cut. Despite beating our 2 biggest rivals and being undefeated. They are upset with MLF and the job he is doing.

If the Packers win the SB beating the Pats 62-7, they will ***** the next day about not picking up that one 3rd down in the 3rd quarter.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You think that people don't realize that draft picks bust?

What you're ignoring is that value of 1st round picks when they are that high.

In 2018, the Colts got three extra 2nd round picks just to move back from #3 to #6.

In 2017, the 49ers got two 3rd round picks and a 4th round pick to move back one spot from #2 to #3.

When teams are willing to move back further, the hauls become massive. The Titans received two 1st round picks, two 2nd round picks, and two 3rd round picks to go from #1 to #15 in 2016. The Browns also received two 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick, a 3rd round pick, and a 4th round pick to move from #2 to #8 that same year.

And this is not to mention that the top 5 is where you most commonly find franchise QB's, which are the most valuable commodity in the game.

If the Steelers traded one of these massive hauls or a top flight QB prospect for Minkah, they screwed up. They're banking on Mason Rudolph carrying them to a much better record and thus a lower pick.

By your logic, why wouldn't Miami trade their first round pick in 2020 for Kevin King? Why would they choose the "mystery box" when they could have a good corner?

Great, all valid. I, however, am kind of interested in winning a Super Bowl with the QB the team has. Paying a 1st and a 4th (which is more than the Steelers paid) seems like a pretty good deal when you get an extremely cheap player at a tremendously valuable position that can help the team for, what, two more years than those future picks will?

And Kevin King is nowhere near as good as Minkah and will be in line for a new deal after next year; the two players aren't even comparable.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I do agree the price for GB to better PIT’s offer was possibly too high. You’re right on that value of the pick MIA acquired from them.

Imagine, next year, being able to throw our R1 at the best WR or OT possible at #32...

I am somewhat baffled by this obsession with using a first round pick on offense next year, as if the talent on that side is somehow inadequate. The Packers have a top-3 QB, a top-5 WR, a top-10 RB, and a top-10 oline. Meanwhile, the defense is currently relying on a 36 year old CB to play major snaps and King, a corner that has been unable to stay healthy and who has a contract that ends after next year.

Yeah, would it be nice if the Packers could draft some amazing WR to pair with Adams? Sure, but the kind of 1st round WR that might make an impact in year 1 will be gone LONG before the Packers pick (despite what everyone thinks, it's still really rare for a receiver to make any kind of major impact in the first couple seasons). MVS appears to be on his way to becoming a very good second receiver and the team has plenty of young talent to develop into a third guy. If anything, on offense, the team probably needs to focus on tackle and TE in the draft next year; drafting a TE in the first round is historically a waste and I just think teams are so bad at projecting OTs that drafting multiple guys in the later rounds makes more sense.

This is why the Minkah trade made sense. You are getting a proven, elite CB who still has 4 more years on his rookie deal. That ship has obviously sailed but I still don't think this offense needs to focus on offense as much in the draft as some appear to.

 

[XPack]

This is done and should be moved to other teams forum @longtimefan and other mods ...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I still don't think this offense needs to focus on offense as much in the draft as some appear to.

I for one haven't said "just the draft". There are other routes to improve your team, free agency and trades. Look at all the big name players coming up for trades. Look at all the big name players that pop up during free agency. Blowing your ***, right now on a position that isn't in great need, is fiscally irresponsible IMO. Because when the season is over and you discover you need a WR, a TE, and a RT, but you blew your load on another CB, what do you do? Or Davante Adams goes down and you need a top notch WR, what then, you just mortgaged your 2020 draft by trading away your 1st and 2nd.

I'm sure you will come and find me in 3 weeks when Alexander blows his knee out, but you can't build a team by over spending your draft assets and capital on one position. I realize Minkah was financially a GREAT deal, but that was it, it would have taken the Packers a first and a second to get him away from the Steelers and I would have been fuming had they done that, despite his cheap contract.

 

[Dantés]

Great, all valid. I, however, am kind of interested in winning a Super Bowl with the QB the team has. Paying a 1st and a 4th (which is more than the Steelers paid) seems like a pretty good deal when you get an extremely cheap player at a tremendously valuable position that can help the team for, what, two more years than those future picks will?

And Kevin King is nowhere near as good as Minkah and will be in line for a new deal after next year; the two players aren't even comparable.

Kevin King is actually better than Minkah right now. I don't think Minkah has ever played at the level that King has demonstrated these first two weeks. But I used that example to illustrate the point-- just because players are "proven" and picks are not does not mean that the player is always more valuable. Minkah is worth a 1st, but not one in the top 5.

I don't think offering a 1st and 4th would have been crazy, but I still highly doubt that beats the Steelers offer.

If internally Miami believes that PIT will end up around, say, #7 and that GB will end up around #20 it would take way more than a 4th to make up the discrepancy.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Kevin King is actually better than Minkah right now. I don't think Minkah has ever played at the level that King has demonstrated these first two weeks. But I used that example to illustrate the point-- just because players are "proven" and picks are not does not mean that the player is always more valuable. Minkah is worth a 1st, but not one in the top 5.

I don't think offering a 1st and 4th would have been crazy, but I still highly doubt that beats the Steelers offer.

If internally Miami believes that PIT will end up around, say, #7 and that GB will end up around #20 it would take way more than a 4th to make up the discrepancy.

Minkah is a much better CB than King and has shown it over an entire season. I will agree that this year King has been a better corner than Minkah has been at linebacker/DE.

Either way, we'll get to see in Pitt how good he is playing for only $1.5 mil.

 

[Dantés]

Minkah is a much better CB than King and has shown it over an entire season. I will agree that this year King has been a better corner than Minkah has been at linebacker/DE.

Either way, we'll get to see in Pitt how good he is playing for only $1.5 mil.

He's so good that the Steelers are making him a free safety...

 

[Sunshinepacker]

He's so good that the Steelers are making him a free safety...

So because the steelers might be foolish and use him at a position that's not his best (we'll see where he actually lines up), that's supposed to be a mic drop? You do remember when McCarthy wouldn't play Aaron Jones over Williams, right? Did that mean Jones wasn't that good? Coaches aren't always that smart about things.

Question, how many games has King played? Answer, 17! How many has Minkah played? 18! Minkah has been very good at corner in those games, King has occasionally been good. How do you even think the two players are comparable?!