Midseason Assessment

[OldSchool101]

Another good example might very well be Devonte Wyatt for the OTHER side of the coin and how to properly do it. Clearly that young man can put pressure on the QB in passing downs, but containment and run diagnosing is rumored to be where he's still growing...hence the lower snap counts.

See everywhere I read he was a really good run-first Defender for Georgia. Where did you get that he was poor diagnosing the Run??


I’m seeing consistently that His relative weakness (if any) was PASS rush plan and versatility. His taking on 2nd blockers is where he needs refinement.

Playing from 3T to outside (Edge) lateral moves, disengagement on blocks, locating the ball carrier and whistle hustle are what make his RUN support stellar. Don’t take it from me. Go watch his highlights he covers the edge like a 260lb LB at 315lbs.

 

[tynimiller]

See everywhere I read he was a really good run-first Defender for Georgia. Where did you get that he was poor diagnosing the run??


I’m seeing consistently that His weakness was PASS rush plan and versatility.

Anecdotal observations from myself watching games, PFF grading observations and one in house guy that is close enough to hear some stuff but isn't a day to day at practice type always.

 

[OldSchool101]

Anecdotal observations from myself watching games, PFF grading observations and one in house guy that is close enough to hear some stuff but isn't a day to day at practice type always.

Gotcha. Well That’s fine.
I still think putting any guy into a scenario though with 10 snaps per game is not enough to get much a feel of his true, consistent impact. That and limiting his grooming at his position. I do understand he was buried in the depth chart by guys that have more experience and we likely wanted to get a good look at also.
That said, those other guys didn’t exactly tear up their roles. Where has our starting DL been this season? Are they that much better than Wyatt? I doubt that highly.

 

[milani]

So you claim that Wyatt shouldn’t be a later Day 1 selection? Why because “he isn’t great at every aspect coming in”? That to me is an extremely knee jerkish type personnel evaluation imo. But it shows what you do to prove a point holds no prudent boundaries.

To be fair, Scouts offer weaknesses in almost every draft profile, that by itself doesn’t negate the overall evaluation. I can show you loads of negatives for any player you present, I don’t think it’s prudent to deem them not Day 1 worthy at all though based on that alone. It does shows me who is impatient at evaluating talent in its entirety of scope though.

This one is from SB Nation

Negatives​

There are very few knocks about Wyatt’s game, but there are some question marks that Georgia’s defense didn’t answer. While the blitz-heavy defense had an insanely productive year, leading the team all the way to a national championship win, it asked defensive linemen to do so much stunting that they rarely got to pin their ears back and penetrate in the backfield, which is how NFL defensive linemen make their money. This is also a question mark about Travon Walker’s game, the potential first overall pick in April’s draft.

Because of this scheme limitation, you don’t see too many opportunities for Wyatt to showcase his explosiveness, especially when he’s typically a run-first defender when he isn’t being asked to move one or two gaps away at the snap of the ball. Like Davis, there are questions about what Wyatt can bring as a pass-rusher because the Bulldogs had such a deep defensive front that they had NFL-like sub-packages in pass-rushing situations, keeping their interior linemen off of the field on “passing downs.

This part is me again
Also if he’s a “RUN FIRST defender and projected as a DE because of elite ability to separate and cover lateral movement with speed?
then why on earth would Barry not use him extensively against teams that excel at the run??????? Instead we start him on 6 snaps in the Middle on a 3 defenders on 5 Blockers scenario?? What is going on with that thinking? Kinda blatantly obvious isn’t it? Joe, This isn’t brain surgery here.

Excellent observations!! Would he be better as a down lineman in a 4-3? Like a Gilbert Brown? Did he ever face double teams at Georgia? We need the beef to stop the run. And apparently Barry either does not know how to use him or his plan on how to use him did not pan out. Either way you if you high draft somehow with his talent you should have had a definitive place identified before he ever got off the plane barring a serious injury.

 

[milani]

Gotcha. Well That’s fine.
I still think putting any guy into a scenario though with 10 snaps per game is not enough to get much a feel of his true, consistent impact. That and limiting his grooming at his position. I do understand he was buried in the depth chart by guys that have more experience and we likely wanted to get a good look at also.
That said, those other guys didn’t exactly tear up their roles. Where has our starting DL been this season? Are they that much better than Wyatt? I doubt that highly.

Our D line does not have a lot to boast this season. That is why we drafted Wyatt. The goal was to stop the run and win the LOS. Our platooning needs to improve. Fritz Shurmur would use Gilbert Brown on run downs and pull him on long yardage or defensive plays. On the other side Ed Donnatell would send KGB in a the passing downs and long yardage plays. This was not rocket science.

 

[OldSchool101]

Our D line does not have a lot to boast this season. That is why we drafted Wyatt. The goal was to stop the run and win the LOS. Our platooning needs to improve. Fritz Shurmur would use Gilbert Brown on run downs and pull him on long yardage or defensive plays. On the other side Ed Donnatell would send KGB in a the passing downs and long yardage plays. This was not rocket science.

Yes. On flip side. We can’t expect a Rookie to come in as an All Pro either. I get that. But what’s the harm in at least using him 25% snaps area at an area he can help early? Not one I can think of, unless those in front of him are exceeding expectations. Thrn I totally understand to hold him back. He must’ve P’d in someone Corn flakes or something

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So you claim that Wyatt shouldn’t be a later Day 1 selection? Why because “he isn’t great at every aspect coming in”? That to me is an extremely knee jerkish type personnel evaluation imo. But it shows what you do to prove a point holds no prudent boundaries.

To be fair, Scouts offer weaknesses in almost every draft profile, that by itself doesn’t negate the overall evaluation. I can show you loads of negatives for any player you present, I don’t think it’s prudent to deem them not Day 1 worthy at all though based on that alone. It does shows me who is impatient at evaluating talent in its entirety of scope though.

You're truly one of a kind. I never said Wyatt shouldn't have been a first round pick. I don't see any point in using one on a player that solely excels in 1-on-1 matchups though. If you consider him to be one of them then it was a mistake to select him that early.

See everywhere I read he was a really good run-first Defender for Georgia. Where did you get that he was poor diagnosing the Run??

I’m seeing consistently that His relative weakness (if any) was PASS rush plan and versatility. His taking on 2nd blockers is where he needs refinement.

Georgia used Wyatt far more as a pass rusher than run defender.

I still think putting any guy into a scenario though with 10 snaps per game is not enough to get much a feel of his true, consistent impact. That and limiting his grooming at his position. I do understand he was buried in the depth chart by guys that have more experience and we likely wanted to get a good look at also.
That said, those other guys didn’t exactly tear up their roles. Where has our starting DL been this season? Are they that much better than Wyatt? I doubt that highly.

As mentioned on numerous occasions, the coaching staff obviously believed Wyatt wasn't an upgrade over any of the defensive lineman receiving more playing time than him so far. They didn't increase his snap count just to pi$$ you off.

But what’s the harm in at least using him 25% snaps area at an area he can help early? Not one I can think of, unless those in front of him are exceeding expectations.

Wyatt could be worse than other defensive lineman receiving more snaps than him.

 

[gopkrs]

As mentioned on numerous occasions, the coaching staff obviously believed Wyatt wasn't an upgrade over any of the defensive lineman receiving more playing time than him so far.

I sure hope it isn't the "he shouldn't be playing because he is a rookie." Which I have seen at times.

 

[OldSchool101]

As mentioned on numerous occasions, the coaching staff obviously believed Wyatt wasn't an upgrade over any of the defensive lineman receiving more playing time than him so far. They didn't increase his snap count just to pi$$ you off.

Oh I’m not upset at all. Sorry you take it that way, anyone that knows me personally would tell you I’m about the calmest person in the room. Somehow you invoke the Adam in me and I apparently I in you as well. I don’t take it personally, I have fun sparring with you.

There’s not much I know in life, but I 100% know whatever we are doing on our Defensive side isn’t working. I wouldn’t allow that to persist to be stubborn or protect my interests, I’d casually admit that I am wrong and make immediate changes.
I think we’re playing guys out of position and also think we’re playing some guys too much and others not enough, so scheme is a big part of our problem imo

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I sure hope it isn't the "he shouldn't be playing because he is a rookie." Which I have seen at times.

There's no doubt that would be a terrible reason for not increasing Wyatt's snap count.

There’s not much I know in life, but I 100% know whatever we are doing on our Defensive side isn’t working. I wouldn’t allow that to persist to be stubborn or protect my interests, I’d casually admit that I am wrong and make immediate changes.
I think we’re playing guys out of position and also think we’re playing some guys too much and others not enough, so scheme is a big part of our problem imo

Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree that the coaching staff on defense hasn't been up to the task this season and should be replaced this offseason.

I don't believe Wyatt receiving more snaps would solve any issues at this point.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't believe Wyatt receiving more snaps would solve any issues at this point.

I don’t think playing Wyatt more than 25 snaps a game on Defense is going to hurt us at all. It’s not like we’re replacing All Pros upfront to get him involved

I would’ve thought you if anyone ((who has repeated claims we shouldn’t draft Day 1 players (2020) and bench them while in a Win Now Mode etc)) wouldn’t then turn around and do a 180 degrees on his own philosophy? Doesn’t this reversal of philosophy show even more evidence that there are no guarantees that alternate draftee conceit had zero guarantees to push us “over the top”?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I would’ve thought you if anyone ((who has repeated claims we shouldn’t draft Day 1 players (2020) and bench them while in a Win Now Mode etc)) wouldn’t then turn around and do a 180 degrees on his own philosophy? Doesn’t this reversal of philosophy show even more evidence that there are no guarantees that alternate draftee conceit had zero guarantees to push us “over the top”?

There's a huge difference between drafting a backup at quarterback with a first round pick where aside of an injury occurring the starter plays every single snap in a game compared to a position on which players rotate in and out of a game like on the defensive line.

 

[longtimefan]

The lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball suggests reality.

So last year it was okay to say this?

it’s even worse this year

 

[tynimiller]

So last year it was okay to say this?

it’s even worse this year

I actually perused this thread and wondered how long before someone pointed out the thoughts of some.

 

[rmontro]

It feels like after 30 years, the team has finally crashed to earth.

 

[tynimiller]

So last year it was okay to say this?

it’s even worse this year

You know I've done this elsewhere but seriously folks were making EVERY excuse imaginable when Rodgers led team had us sitting at 3-4 in week 7 and especially when sitting 4-8 week 12. The offense Gute gave him was terrible.....

Well folks take that ^ offense and remove:

Lazard / Cobb / Lewis / Tonyan / Bakh(sorta) / Jones (he has barely been in) / Watson

That is what you are asking Love to play with.

 

[Magooch]

I don’t know who Jacob Morley is, but thoughts?

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Feel like there might be some truth to that idea. Our approach to most games has been shockingly bad. Conversely, while he’s obviously been hurt and not playing, the Jets can’t stop gushing about how valuable it’s been to have Rodgers around for his “coaching”.

 

[tynimiller]

I don’t know who Jacob Morley is, but thoughts?

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Feel like there might be some truth to that idea. Our approach to most games has been shockingly bad. Conversely, while he’s obviously been hurt and not playing, the Jets can’t stop gushing about how valuable it’s been to have Rodgers around for his “coaching”.

I do believe there to be truth to this....but it isn't just Rodgers...you removed the veteran knowledge and presence in EVERY SINGLE offensive position group.

Bakh in OL
Lewis in TE
Lazard/Cobb in WR

RB is the only one not.

 

[Poppa San]

AFTER 11 weeks, the Packers lead the league in 2nd half scoring. They are 2nd worse in 1st half. Sidenote their meager 1st half effort is still more than the Mahomes led Chiefs 2nd half efforts. Chiefs have not scored in the 2nd half of the past 3 games. All are per game stats.

 

[milani]

AFTER 11 weeks, the Packers lead the league in 2nd half scoring. They are 2nd worse in 1st half. Sidenote their meager 1st half effort is still more than the Mahomes led Chiefs 2nd half efforts. Chiefs have not scored in the 2nd half of the past 3 games. All are per game stats.

Chiefs need to wake up. Their defense has played well but with their talent they should be averaging 30 a game.

 

[PackerDNA]

This team has spent a large chunk of the season being discombobulated. We are starting to see real progress though. I don't know if we should lean so much on the youngest team in the league stuff. The Seahawks are the second youngest team in the league and they're probably going to the playoffs.

 

[tynimiller]

This team has spent a large chunk of the season being discombobulated. We are starting to see real progress though. I don't know if we should lean so much on the youngest team in the league stuff. The Seahawks are the second youngest team in the league and they're probably going to the playoffs.

Age wise they absolutely are one of the youngest...but just look at their offense skill position experience:

QB - Geno had 62 games vs Love's 10 (most garbage time) coming into the season
RB - the only skill position we had more experience coming into the year...
WR - Metcalf and Locket had 193 games in the NFL coming into the year....we had Doubs/Watson with 27
TE - Noah Fant had 64 games in four seasons in the NFL vs our....whatever Deguara had...