Michael Clark and other training camp tidbits

[Mondio]

It will be interesting to see if he catches on with someone else, or if he really just wanted to quit football. I was surprised and had high hopes for him. As you point out though, they have plenty of prospects at WR, just not a lot of veteran talent.

He can't catch on somewhere else. He's a Packer if he comes back or is cut

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think people put way too much stock in "any WR will work, because AR is such a great QB". How long did it take high round picks to become star WR's in Green Bay? How many mid, late round or FA WR's have shined playing with Rodgers? Right now, the Packers have 2 WR's that have proven they can produce, but unfortunately both are somewhat susceptible to injuries. Other than those 2, none of the current WR's on the roster, besides maybe Allison has proven a thing. I am hopeful that 1 or 2 of the rookies become star WR's, but until such time, I still contend that the WR's depth is really dangerously unimpressive.

 

[Jerellh528]

Check out valdes-Scantling burn Alexander pretty good here. Underthrown ball, but impressive break away speed.

https://mobile.twitter.com/truepackersfan/status/1023266314322894848?s=21

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think people put way too much stock in "any WR will work, because AR is such a great QB". How long did it take high round picks to become star WR's in Green Bay? How many mid, late round or FA WR's have shined playing with Rodgers? I am hopeful that 1 or 2 of the rookies become star WR's, but until such time, I still contend that the WR's depth is really dangerously unimpressive.

I agree that quality depth at wide receiver is a reason for concern entering the season. It's true that even WRs drafted early needed some time to put up impressive numbers with Rodgers but the Packers having been stacked at the position for quite some time might have resulted in them developing slower as rookies with other teams.

When solely taking a look at receivers either selected on day three of the draft or not being picked at all it's alarming that aside of Driver (who proved to be an elite player long before Rodgers was named the starter) Geronimo Allison has caught the most passes from #12 with a total of only 26 (!!!) over the past 10 seasons.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree that quality depth at wide receiver is a reason for concern entering the season. It's true that even WRs drafted early needed some time to put up impressive numbers with Rodgers but the Packers having been stacked at the position for quite some time might have resulted in them developing slower as rookies with other teams.

When solely taking a look at receivers either selected on day three of the draft or not being picked at all it's alarming that aside of Driver (who proved to be an elite player long before Rodgers was named the starter) Geronimo Allison has caught the most passes from #12 with a total of only 26 (!!!) over the past 10 seasons.

Good find and research on the # of catches by a day 3 or later guy and it jives with my mental stats. Let's face it, there is a reason all these guys aren't drafted very high and even the great Aaron Rodgers can't turn them into solid dependable WR's. While cutting Jordy might have been the right thing to do, I believe only using 3 late picks on WR's and yes, signing Jimmy Graham, was not enough to fill the current need at WR.

It will be interesting to see what happens at the position as the preseason unfolds, but that still might not give us a good indication of how this group will work with AR until well into the regular season. If injuries take down either Adams or Cobb, I think the Packers have set themselves up for a real problem on offense. Sort of like Sam Shields, lets not forget Adams concussion history (3 concussions in 14 months).

Maybe a decent vet WR will be on the chopping block in the next month and if needed, the Packers can sign one. However, I would do that sooner than later so that they have time to get into that groove needed when working with #12.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Let's face it, there is a reason all these guys aren't drafted very high and even the great Aaron Rodgers can't turn them into solid dependable WR's.

If injuries take down either Adams or Cobb, I think the Packers have set themselves up for a real problem on offense. Sort of like Sam Shields, lets not forget Adams concussion history (3 concussions in 14 months).

While there's definitely a reason those receivers get selected later in the draft other teams have been way more successful with day three or undrafted WRs. Since Rodgers has been the Packers starter Brandon Marshall (fourth round), Antonio Brown (sixth) and Wes Welker (undrafted) rank second, third and fourth respectively among WRs in total receptions since 2008.

I'm not worried about Adams' concussion history as he has been back immediately from both suffered last season and hopefully won't sustain any more cheap shots this season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yes, other teams have drafted WR's late and they have done well. Maybe its our WR coach?

While it could happen with any of our 3 rookies, due to the history of the position in Green Bay and with AR, I wouldn't be compelled to bank on seeing a lot out of them or Davis and maybe not even out of Allison.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, other teams have drafted WR's late and they have done well. Maybe its our WR coach?

Well, the Packers have changed the receivers coach several times since 2008. We're not looking at a similar situation as with Whitt at the position

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well, the Packers have changed the receivers coach several times since 2008. We're not looking at a similar situation as with Whitt at the position

So you saying David Raih is also on the hot seat with this being his first year as the WR coach? But you are right, I can't even name all the WR coaches in the last 10+ years, but its been a revolving door. Maybe that is part of the problem?

If nothing else, splashing 3 mid to late round picks on WR's this year, will really put to test whether the Packers can or can't develop a decent WR chosen later in the draft.

 

[Mondio]

We have been absolutely blessed in the WR dept in the past decade. I think we're in a more "normal" position this year. Much like most other teams have every year. I still think we have 3 exceptional passing targets and multiple others from RB and other TE positions who are as good as you'll find all over the league. It's not like every other team has 3 star WRs, 2 star TEs and 4 RBs that are great receivers on their roster.

Like I said before, I think we're "thin" at proven depth at WR, but our offense is in pretty good shape overall. Better than the past few years I think. I think we'll see a more scheme based offense and not so much of a line up and make reads on the fly offense if that makes sense. Of course there will be read and recognition required in any offense, but with multiple targets at WR, TE and RB, with a threat to go deep middle backfield or run on ever play, that balance helps and the passing trees become easier for those involved and only Rodgers has to find the open guy.

I'm not worried about the offense and I do think young WRs will have a slightly easier time acclimating to how it will be run this season. More user friendly

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We have been absolutely blessed in the WR dept in the past decade. I think we're in a more "normal" position this year. Much like most other teams have every year. I still think we have 3 exceptional passing targets and multiple others from RB and other TE positions who are as good as you'll find all over the league. It's not like every other team has 3 star WRs, 2 star TEs and 4 RBs that are great receivers on their roster.

Like I said before, I think we're "thin" at proven depth at WR, but our offense is in pretty good shape overall. Better than the past few years I think. I think we'll see a more scheme based offense and not so much of a line up and make reads on the fly offense if that makes sense. Of course there will be read and recognition required in any offense, but with multiple targets at WR, TE and RB, with a threat to go deep middle backfield or run on ever play, that balance helps and the passing trees become easier for those involved and only Rodgers has to find the open guy.

I'm not worried about the offense and I do think young WRs will have a slightly easier time acclimating to how it will be run this season. More user friendly

I agree that the offense should be in good shape as long as Adams and Cobb stay healthy. If one of them is sidelined for a significant amount of time the Packers will need one of the rookies receivers to contribute in a big way for the unit to not miss a beat though.

 

[Mondio]

They won't carry on without missing a beat, I think they're a lot more equipped to just change beats though.

 

[swhitset]

As good as Rodgers is, I truly think he must shoulder some of the blame for the fact that the Packers have not developed any late round WRs. I think sometimes he expects too much, and instead of helping those guys succeed, he simply begins to ignore them. The fact is that if a guy doesn’t go first or second round, he is going to be a project, and I don’t think Rodgers is the ideal personally to deal with that situation.

 

[PackAttack12]

As good as Rodgers is, I truly think he must shoulder some of the blame for the fact that the Packers have not developed any late round WRs. I think sometimes he expects too much, and instead of helping those guys succeed, he simply begins to ignore them. The fact is that if a guy doesn’t go first or second round, he is going to be a project, and I don’t think Rodgers is the ideal personally to deal with that situation.

Geronimo Allison being an undrafted free agent works against your theory, IMO. He caught some pretty big balls for us late in the year in 2016. And essentially the game winner against Cincy in 2017.

Of course the standard for Rodgers is high, but IMO, I think because his standards are so high for receiving targets, it should work to provide motivation for guys lower down the depth chart to work even harder to prove themselves. I don't think Rodgers has this preconceived notion of ignoring guys who weren't 1st or 2nd round picks.

And at the end of the day, Nelson/Cobb/Adams were simply the better wide receiving options at the time and throwing to those guys gave the Packers the best chance to win. I get where you are going with your idea, but I'm not entirely certain what you would prefer Rodgers do differently. And I could be missing a key point, here.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

As good as Rodgers is, I truly think he must shoulder some of the blame for the fact that the Packers have not developed any late round WRs. I think sometimes he expects too much, and instead of helping those guys succeed, he simply begins to ignore them. The fact is that if a guy doesn’t go first or second round, he is going to be a project, and I don’t think Rodgers is the ideal personally to deal with that situation.

The Packers have mostly had high quality starters at wide receiver during Rodgers' tenure making it difficult for late round picks and undrafted free agents to get a lot of snaps. In my opinion this season #12 will have to rely on at least one of those guys to put up decent numbers for the pass offense to be highly effective. Let's wait and see how that works out before throwing the QB under the bus.

 

[swhitset]

The Packers have mostly had high quality starters at wide receiver during Rodgers' tenure making it difficult for late round picks and undrafted free agents to get a lot of snaps. In my opinion this season #12 will have to rely on at least one of those guys to put up decent numbers for the pass offense to be highly effective. Let's wait and see how that works out before throwing the QB under the bus.

I agree... but laugh at the characterization of me having thrown Rodgers under the bus simply because I suggested that he may share some of the blame. I recognize how good he is and how lucky we have been to have back to back HOF QBs. However, nobody is perfect including Rodgers. You are correct that this season should tell us a lot, and no matter how it turns out, we already know that Aaron is one one of the best ever.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I see both sides of this. AR is very open about what he expects from his WR's and its pretty obvious, if they don't deliver, his patience is rather short with them and he may choose to only throw them the ball if nothing else is open. But given that he has had some pretty decent talent to work with over the years, this has worked, except in the cases where injuries remove those talented players and AR is left no choice but to work with the bottom of the depth chart, the offense sputtered during some of those times.

Not that the draft was brimming with first round talented WR's, but I am a bit disappointed that an immediate need at the position wasn't perceived with the draft or free agent signings. Cobb could very well be gone after this year, so that is putting a lot of pressure on developing 2-3 guys who weren't considered to be high end talent coming out of college. Let's hope the scouts were wrong and all 3 are diamonds in the rough.

I do acknowledge, the amount of money spent on the top FA WR's this year was ludicrous.

2019 might be the year we see the next Jennings, Nelson or Adams drafted in the first round or 2.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I see both sides of this. AR is very open about what he expects from his WR's and its pretty obvious, if they don't deliver, his patience is rather short with them and he may choose to only throw them the ball if nothing else is open. But given that he has had some pretty decent talent to work with over the years, this has worked, except in the cases where injuries remove those talented players and AR is left no choice but to work with the bottom of the depth chart, the offense sputtered during some of those times.

Not that the draft was brimming with first round talented WR's, but I am a bit disappointed that an immediate need at the position wasn't perceived with the draft or free agent signings. Cobb could very well be gone after this year, so that is putting a lot of pressure on developing 2-3 guys who weren't considered to be high end talent coming out of college. Let's hope the scouts were wrong and all 3 are diamonds in the rough.

I do acknowledge, the amount of money spent on the top FA WR's this year was ludicrous.

2019 might be the year we see the next Jennings, Nelson or Adams drafted in the first round or 2.

It's interesting to note that the Packers still rank third in cap space allocated towards the wide receiver position even after releasing Nelson.

As I've mentioned repeatedly there's no doubt the team enters this season with question marks at the position but after spending three draft picks on it there's no reason to expect there are any plans to sign another veteran as long as Adams and Cobb stay healthy during the preseason.

 

[PackFan2]

Anyone gonna watch or be there for family night?

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Was at TC yesterday. Jake Kumrow caught some nice passes. He was working work.

Unfortunately where we chose to sit didn't have close-ups of a lot of activity. But what I could see when they scrimmaged was that Alexander had his nose in everything. He was tight against his receivers and was able to break up a couple of passes. The defense as a whole seemed to win their match-ups more than the offense.

Watched the QB's trying to hit "The Basket" but the only one who came close...hit the rim a couple of times was Boyle. It will be interesting to see what they do with him.

Graham is a big dude and had no trouble catching passes from Aaron. Was quite surprised that M. Lewis is so big and tall. He looked about an inch taller than Graham.

Watched the OL go through their drills. Spriggs seemed to do ok from what I could see.

What surprised me the most was how much standing around the players did during the 1st hour. They did their stretches and then stood around listening to a coach or have the coach demonstrate what he wanted. The other thing was, when the defense was stretching Matthews seemed to kinda do his own thing. He didn't stretch each move as long as the others did and always seemed to be ahead in the stretches that the strength and conditioning people were telling him what to do. Thought that was kinda interesting.

I don't know how to post pictures or I would.

The practice lasted 3 hours since they quit early on Monday due to weather and they have today off....Man was it hot!!! I can't imagine how hot the players were is pads.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Watched the OL go through their drills. Spriggs seemed to do ok from what I could see.

So he didn't have to block anyone?

What surprised me the most was how much standing around the players did during the 1st hour.

So basically simulating what many of them do during a game

Good stuff GBkrzgrl and thanks for sharing. I have often wanted to see a practice, but never have made it to Green Bay for one. Your insights were nice. With that many guys on the field, I can see a lot of standing around being done.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Just remembered something else. I'm excited to see what Biegel can do. He came very close to intercepting Aaron, but he dropped it.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Bad rubbish? What makes him bad rubbish?

why was he bad rubbish? Did I miss something? He was a long shot, a tall intriguing long shot. out of all those guys they brought in last year, to me he was the only one that remotely flashed anything. Even got bumped up near the end and made a few nice plays. No reason to think he was going to be Julio Jones, but he was clearly athletic enough to be helpful and after only 1 year of college and 1 year of PS play, experience could have definitely made him into something.

I was too harsh, yes I know.

By rubbish though, I mean I hate that we continually practice the habit of addressing positions of need with 3rd day picks. I've made this point before, and I'll make it again....with the exception of Driver(7th), our most productive WRs of the last decade have all come in the 2nd,(Nelson, Jennings, Cobb, Adams) and 3rd (Jones). I'll give BG a pass because it was a weak WR class and he had to do something. But if there is no progression, I expect hopefully no lower than a 4th Round next year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I was too harsh, yes I know.

By rubbish though, I mean I hate that we continually practice the habit of addressing positions of need with 3rd day picks. I've made this point before, and I'll make it again....with the exception of Driver(7th), our most productive WRs of the last decade have all come in the 2nd,(Nelson, Jennings, Cobb, Adams) and 3rd (Jones). I'll give BG a pass because it was a weak WR class and he had to do something. But if there is no progression, I expect hopefully no lower than a 4th Round next year.

Agreed and you can take this one step further, the reason we got by doing this with the WR position is because of #12. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what happens when even guys like Jennings move on from the Packers. We saw the same thing with Favre and guys like Javon Walker looking pedestrian with another team. I know people don't want Dez in Green and Gold, but I always have to wonder what Aaron could do with someone like him (at the top of his game), Julio Jones, Beckham, etc. Aaron Rodgers is a great QB and he has had some talent to work with, but even he struggles with making average or below average receivers look good.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Williams actually was toed for the third most fair catches in the league with a total 19 during the 2010 regular season as well.

It would definitely been a waste of money signing Williams this offseason for him to solely be the dime cornerback as well as the backup punt returner.

If he led the league in returns and was third in fair catches then we might conclude he led the league in not letting the ball hit the ground which is a plus in itself, a virtue Davis has lacked to date.

It Williams gets beat out for a job in the nickel secondary, "wasting" that money is a good problem to have given how the rookies would have to perform to make that happen. Besides, the top 3 will not go 48 for 48 in starts. Whoever is the #4 will get plenty of snaps, and in Williams' case perhaps snaps at safety.