Mason Crosby in trouble?

[Heyjoe4]

It's absolutely mind-boggling that most posters around here and Packers fans in general don't understand that Crosby has been an average kicker at best. It's even worse that Thompson obviously gad no clue about it either.

Captain do you know what his career %s are? I know he had one really bad year. I don’t know what the career numbers are and how they compare with other kickers but they must be available.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Over his career, and including Sunday, Crosby has made 79.8% of his field goals. Seems pretty solid to me.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

MM very rarely publicly throws players under the bus. Especially his long time vets.

Well, if you haven't noticed, many fans start lighting their hair on fire when MM says those two magic words.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Today dropped Mason's career FG percentage to 79.8%. Mason's reputation far exceeds his actual career accuracy. In this day and age, kickers under an 80% career FG mark are almost unheard of. Most kickers who can't maintain 85% or better are unemployed quickly. I'm certain that among active kickers, 79.8% is either the lowest career mark or one of the lowest.

Why Crosby has earned a reputation as one of the best, I'm not certain. People seem to mistake longetivity for accuracy. He's never had a season over 90% in 12 NFL seasons. For comparison, Dan Bailey, who was recently unemployed, currently has 4 in 8 seasons. Justin Tucker, who has a career average over 90%, has 5 in 7 seasons.

Yes, he's made some clutch kicks, as will any kicker by circumstance over the course of 12 seasons. He's also missed some, as we saw against Minnesota.

People love Crosby. But most of his support is based on not really quantifiable arguments -- "He's made some big kicks for us", "He's one of the best", and a lot of that support is simply the status of being a Packer for a long time. But making an actual statistical argument for Mason being one of the best in the game is much more difficult. If you actually analyze his career statistically and remove emotion from the equation, he's one of the most overrated kickers in the game, to put it bluntly.

Thanks, the stats put things in some perspective. I didn’t realize most kickers are in the mid 80s.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Over his career, and including Sunday, Crosby has made 79.8% of his field goals. Seems pretty solid to me.

Well yes, let's be honest, Crosby wouldn't be here as long as he has without being solid. I don't think the issue is about what has he done in the past but more about what is he doing right now.

Now to be fair, I'd say nearly every kicker will get those long streaks of good years and then just whoomph, out of nowhere they'll get the shanks. A little bit like golf in that regard. I've looked around the league too and even Mr usually clutch Vinateri is struggling a little.

Crazy too, I remember back when Gary Anderson was hitting everything and I mean everything right down the middle, and then right there right at that final gun sound of that 1998 NFC Championship Game ... Wheesh he missed. The aftermath, he went from hitting everything to going full on bad.

I just hope Crosby hasn't hit his Gary Anderson or Billy Cundiff stage.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Well yes, let's be honest, Crosby wouldn't be here as long as he has without being solid. I don't think the issue is about what has he done in the past but more about what is he doing right now.

Now to be fair, I'd say nearly every kicker will get those long streaks of good years and then just whoomph, out of nowhere they'll get the shanks. A little bit like golf in that regard. I've looked around the league too and even Mr usually clutch Vinateri is struggling a little.

Crazy too, I remember back when Gary Anderson was hitting everything and I mean everything right down the middle, and then right there right at that final gun sound of that 1998 NFC Championship Game ... Wheesh he missed. The aftermath, he went from hitting everything to going full on bad.

I just hope Crosby hasn't hit his Gary Anderson or Billy Cundiff stage.

Yeah I remember that Gary Anderson miss. I think it was against the Falcons and would have put the queens in the SB.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

One thing I do hope though is that MM's attempts at going for 2 last week didn't just happen because we were down 24. I don't want to damage Crosby's confidence, but I think MM should consider foregoing the extra point and go for 2 more like he did there. Might not have to worry then if your kicker's got the shanks.

 

[Heyjoe4]

One thing I do hope though is that MM's attempts at going for 2 last week didn't just happen because we were down 24. I don't want to damage Crosby's confidence, but I think MM should consider foregoing the extra point and go for 2 more like he did there. Might not have to worry then if your kicker's got the shanks.

Interesting thought. Maybe teams should opt for the two point conversion. Clearly that depends on a potent offense. And with that said, a potent offense should be able to pick up two yards more often than not, given there’s not a lot of real estate to work with.

 

[Poppa San]

Interesting thought. Maybe teams should opt for the two point conversion. Clearly that depends on a potent offense. And with that said, a potent offense should be able to pick up two yards more often than not, given there’s not a lot of real estate to work with.

I recall some stats on here bearing out the advantage of going for two over the course of a season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Nice (but depressing) summary Mike. I’ve also noticed that the team is coming out of the tunnel flat. Take the opener. 100th year of Packer football. The opponent is the almost always beatable Bears. Even given the improvements the Bears have made, the Packers played with no emotion in the first half, and as you note, very little discipline. Very unsettling trend to start the season, and during what is probably the easiest stretch of opponents. I’m usually optimistic, but when Rodgers looks like he’s rather be anywhere else, I get concerned. Bill Walsh famously said that 10 years was the max any HC should spend with a team. I’m not pinning it all on MM, but would love to see a change unless this season results in at least a SB appearance. With the Rams and Saints playing lights out, I don’t see that happening.

Ted was always lauded for not overpaying for FA's, too bad that didn't extend to players from our own team as well.

In hindsight Thompson definitely overpaid to re-sign some of the team's veterans but at the time he had to make those decisions most moves seemed reasonable.

Over his career, and including Sunday, Crosby has made 79.8% of his field goals. Seems pretty solid to me.

That number isn't solid at all though. Since Crosby entered the league in 2007 a total of 45 kickers have attempted at least 100 field goals over their career. He ranks 44th out of them in FG percentage.

One thing I do hope though is that MM's attempts at going for 2 last week didn't just happen because we were down 24.

I'm absolutely convinced the Packers being down by 24 was the only reason McCarthy decided to go for two.

 

[scotscheese]

Well yes, let's be honest, Crosby wouldn't be here as long as he has without being solid. I don't think the issue is about what has he done in the past but more about what is he doing right now.

Now to be fair, I'd say nearly every kicker will get those long streaks of good years and then just whoomph, out of nowhere they'll get the shanks. A little bit like golf in that regard. I've looked around the league too and even Mr usually clutch Vinateri is struggling a little.

Crazy too, I remember back when Gary Anderson was hitting everything and I mean everything right down the middle, and then right there right at that final gun sound of that 1998 NFC Championship Game ... Wheesh he missed. The aftermath, he went from hitting everything to going full on bad.

I just hope Crosby hasn't hit his Gary Anderson or Billy Cundiff stage.

I had no idea Gary Anderson was a football player before becoming world champ at darts

 

[scotscheese]

statistics are like miniskirts, good to look at but hide what you really want to see

in my eyes, Crosby has been a very steady kicker, doesn't make a lot of mistakes normally and has came up with some big clutch kicks when required. as much as Sundays misses are enough to **** people off, it's maybe too much to think it's time to let him go because of one game, we'll see how he is againts SF on monday, then the staff have a bye week to ***** what they want to do. better to have a proven steady kicker, than possibly a more erratic person coming in at this stage of the season

 

[Deleted member 6794]

in my eyes, Crosby has been a very steady kicker, doesn't make a lot of mistakes normally and has came up with some big clutch kicks when required. as much as Sundays misses are enough to **** people off, it's maybe too much to think it's time to let him go because of one game, we'll see how he is againts SF on monday, then the staff have a bye week to ***** what they want to do. better to have a proven steady kicker, than possibly a more erratic person coming in at this stage of the season

Just to clarify, I don't want the Packers to release Crosby at this point of the season but the perception that he has been better than average at any point of his career is simply not true.

 

[Mike McCarthy]

Ray Finkle is available would be a solid veteran option.

 

[scotscheese]

Just to clarify, I don't want the Packers to release Crosby at this point of the season but the perception that he has been better than average at any point of his career is simply not true.

wasn't singling anyone out Cap, just think that though his performance was obviously S*** on sunday, kneejerk reactions are often over the top

 

[Deleted member 6794]

wasn't singling anyone out Cap, just think that though his performance was obviously S*** on sunday, kneejerk reactions are often over the top

Especially as releasing Crosby would result in an additional cap hit of approximately $1 million.

 

[Half Empty]

Especially as releasing Crosby would result in an additional cap hit of approximately $1 million.

Which I think is part of the overall evaluation. I figure most folks would be fine with a grade of 'decent', 'reliable', or something along those lines. It's when a guy is paid as a top-notch performer that problems are magnified. I'd put it in the same arena as AJ Hawk - again, a decent, reliable backer, which is acceptable for a 4th round draft choice, not a #5 overall. And, just a feeling, though it's probably too subjective for even you to research , but it seems to me that Crosby has made way more important/critical kicks than he's missed, even if the total numbers aren't all the impressive.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I get peoples love/hate relationship with Crosby, but I am in the same camp as HE with the "seems to me that Crosby has made way more important/critical kicks than he's missed, even if the total numbers aren't all the impressive."

Let's face it, most kickers, even the good ones miss kicks. Those misses can come at the most critical time of a game or in the first quarter, but each miss costs the team the same, 3 points. Yes, Crosby had a horrendous day and also missed the kick that would have beat the Vikings earlier in the season, but that was a 52 yarder, not automatic and he had already gone 5-5 on the day, mainly due to the fact the Packers offense couldn't finish drives.

So throw out all the pros and cons with Crosby. What do you save by having a Rookie as your kicker? A little over $3M/year. Is that savings worth potentially having an ongoing kicking contest during the season, in attempt to find your new guy?

Cutting him now saves nothing this year, not to mention who do you improve the team with? If you want to replace him, do it next year and do it by actually using a mid to late round pick on a top notched college kicker, much like they did with Scott this year by using a late 5th round pick on him.

 

[Cheese Headed Monster]

One thing I do hope though is that MM's attempts at going for 2 last week didn't just happen because we were down 24. I don't want to damage Crosby's confidence, but I think MM should consider foregoing the extra point and go for 2 more like he did there. Might not have to worry then if your kicker's got the shanks.

I agree with this. I would love to see us going for 2 more often. Even if Crosby is kicking fine. A nice option play for 2 would be nice every once in a while. Keep the other team on their toes.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Personally I'm not a big fan of always going for 2, even if the odds are 50/50. Nothing kills momentum after a TD like a missed XP, except a missed 2 pt. conversion. Work on some really unique plays to use when needed to increase the odds of making that 2 point conversion when the game is on the line, otherwise, just keep kicking for 1.

 

[GleefulGary]

Part of the reason Crosby has a low made percentage is because of MM’s love of kicking 50+ yard field goals with him.

I’m too lazy, but maybe somebody could look up how many 50+ yardwrs he’s attempted compared to other kickers. Perhaps my memory is wrong/biased.

 

[swhitset]

Part of the reason Crosby has a low made percentage is because of MM’s love of kicking 50+ yard field goals with him.

I’m too lazy, but maybe somebody could look up how many 50+ yardwrs he’s attempted compared to other kickers. Perhaps my memory is wrong/biased.

It might be just as informative to know what his percentage is of field goals at 45 yards and below. My suspicion is that it won’t help his case... but maybe Captain Wimm has those numbers.

 

[Poppa San]

Cutting him now saves nothing this year, not to mention who do you improve the team with? If you want to replace him, do it next year and do it by actually using a mid to late round pick on a top notched college kicker, much like they did with Scott this year by using a late 5th round pick on him.

Agree it is now too late for a kicking competition. I wanted one last summer.
As to drafting a kicker

one of the biggest drafting gaffes of recent years took place just two years ago, when the Buccaneers traded up in the second round to get kicking prodigy Roberto Aguayo … who is already on his fourth team.

Remember this guy?

There were the Vikings, moving up from the sixth to the fifth round to get Auburn kicker Daniel Carlson.

I think he's available right now.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Agree it is now too late for a kicking competition. I wanted one last summer.
As to drafting a kicker
Remember this guy? I think he's available right now.

Hope you were listing Carlson with tongue firmly in cheek? After watching his misses, while playing for the Vikings against the Packers, the guy will be lucky to get a tryout next year.

There are probably 32+ guys out there that the Packers could parade in right now, I'm not convinced any of them will be better than Crosby, or they probably would be employed.

Cutting Crosby right now, saves no money in 2018. Nor do I believe will it improve the Packers.

 

[adambr2]

Too late to do anything about Crosby this year, but making such a large investment in a below average kicker and hiding behind an illusion that he is actually good has just been one of the more puzzling things the last 10 years or so.

Crosby's average for 49 and below over his career for whoever was asking is 85.6%. Which would put him at about just league average for all kicks. So Crosby kicks at about the same rate at 49 and below as an average kicker in the league does on all kicks. So yeah, it's not just because he attempts a lot of long kicks. He just isn't that good.

I have to conclude that it's nothing more than "devil you know is better than the devil you don't." Simply put they're terrified of winding up with a head case like Carlson or Aguayo. But being a veteran doesn't necessarily prevent you from being the worst in the league either as Mason showed in 2012.