Jordy Nelson injury

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if he’s gone for the season it’s not a fatal blow, but I think it’s more significant than some are painting it.
 
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Joe Nor Cal Packer

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It won't be. Nelson hurt his knee doing something that could of just as easily happened in practice even if he was wearing a red jersey. Injuries happen. Next man up. EVERY team in the league will suffer a blow to their roster like this. It's how you weather the losses that counts.
That pretty well sums things up. The Packers lost JMike at the beginning of the SB season. It just happens, anytime, anywhere and almost completely at random.
 

Joe Nor Cal Packer

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Losing a key player in a game that doesn't count for anything in the standings. Maybe this is the issue we should be addressing.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2547806-why-does-the-nfl-still-have-a-preseason
Once teams start TC with 90 players in tow, it's very likely you could fill out the starting 53 with 95% accuracy. But the meaningless games are important to weed out that last 5%. I don't think the preseason should be eliminated. Maybe reduced to 2 games where the first team plays one series, and then onto the rest. No perfect answer here.....
 

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Of course the Packers could win a title without Nelson, but I don’t agree with those who post as though his loss would have little or no effect. If you really hold that view, you should have been furious at the 5-year $43M deal Nelson signed last summer, right?

The attention paid to Nelson by opponents made it easier for other receivers to get open. For example in the two games Adams had 7 receptions (DAL & NO), Nelson had 2 and 3 respectively. When NE clamped down on Jordy who only had 2 receptions (one long one for a TD before the half), Adams had 6 receptions. So Adams clearly benefited by being the third WR. If Jordy’s out, both Adams and Cobb will be the focus of more attention. I don’t expect it to matter much during the regular season, although one game may be the difference between playing at home vs. away in the playoffs. But if Jordy’s absent for the playoffs, it will matter IMO. And as some have mentioned, this may not be the last injury at WR. Again, if he’s gone for the season it’s not a fatal blow, but I think it’s more significant than some are painting it.

If you really want to know the truth, I think defenses game planned for Cobb a lot more then they did for Nelson. I'm not trying to trivialize Jordy here, because hes a great WR, but I just feel like defenses have to know where Cobb is lined up at all times.
 
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If you really want to know the truth, I think defenses game planned for Cobb a lot more then they did for Nelson. I'm not trying to trivialize Jordy here, because hes a great WR, but I just feel like defenses have to know where Cobb is lined up at all times.

Teams had success playing aggressive press coverage vs. Nelson or by double teaming him which opened rooms for other receivers. While teams have to be aware about where Cobb lined up all the time they put a lot of emphasis into containing Jordy as well.
 

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Besides his talent, I think what the Packers could miss most about Jordy this year is the chemistry and confidence in each other that he and AR have established. AR runs a very complicated offense and never has to worry about Jordy. When you loose your "trusted wrench" out of your tool box its going to make your job tougher. Let's just hope AR doesn't get frustrated with some new shiny tools, that he might have to keep a closer eye on.
 

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Players can still walk with a ACL. A lot of ACLs happen without contact, and they always walk off the field. This is kinda fitting the mold of a ACL injury, for sure.
Yes, but any half-competent trainer would have no trouble detecting a Grade 3 and if they detected one, they wouldn't have let him walk to the locker room like that. I'm still banking on a low to moderate severity Grade 2 at this point. Here's hoping...
 

Joe Nor Cal Packer

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Besides his talent, I think what the Packers could miss most about Jordy this year is the chemistry and confidence in each other that he and AR have established. AR runs a very complicated offense and never has to worry about Jordy. When you loose your "trusted wrench" out of your tool box its going to make your job tougher. Let's just hope AR doesn't get frustrated with some new shiny tools, that he might have to keep a closer eye on.
Agree. Nelson's loss is huge. That's why I'd like Janis to get first team reps with ARod now. Better to find out in a meaningless game if some semblance of chemistry can be established. Janis has the height and speed. He needs to improve his route running and greatly reduce dropped passes. If not ARod won't even look at him.
 
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If you really want to know the truth, I think defenses game planned for Cobb a lot more then they did for Nelson. I'm not trying to trivialize Jordy here, because hes a great WR, but I just feel like defenses have to know where Cobb is lined up at all times.
What are you basing that on?
 

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Agree. Nelson's loss is huge. That's why I'd like Janis to get first team reps with ARod now. Better to find out in a meaningless game if some semblance of chemistry can be established. Janis has the height and speed. He needs to improve his route running and greatly reduce dropped passes. If not ARod won't even look at him.
Where are all these dropped passes you speak of? When you say "greatly reduce" it implies that there has been an egregious excess of drops. I've seen every snap he's played and I've only seen one play where he didn't catch a pass that a defender didn't get a hand on, and even then The Rock said on the radio he was pretty certain a defender got just enough of a finger on it to deflect it's path at the last second. The replay looked like he may have been right. Janis has things to work on, like everyone does, and everyone who has coached him has indicated he has made good progress. With Jordy out, it's time to throw him in the lake and see if he swims. I think he'll do fine, but it would be silly not to expect some hiccups along the way. It took Jordy several seasons to get where he is. It would be unrealistic to expect Janis to do everything Jordy does in his second year and that should not be the standard of measure at this point.
 

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Where are all these dropped passes you speak of? When you say "greatly reduce" it implies that there has been an egregious excess of drops. I've seen every snap he's played and I've only seen one play where he didn't catch a pass that a defender didn't get a hand on, and even then The Rock said on the radio he was pretty certain a defender got just enough of a finger on it to deflect it's path at the last second. The replay looked like he may have been right. Janis has things to work on, like everyone does, and everyone who has coached him has indicated he has made good progress. With Jordy out, it's time to throw him in the lake and see if he swims. I think he'll do fine, but it would be silly not to expect some hiccups along the way. It took Jordy several seasons to get where he is. It would be unrealistic to expect Janis to do everything Jordy does in his second year and that should not be the standard of measure at this point.

I've seen a few Janis drops that should have been caught.. however I don't think we should hold that against him. Aaron has said himself he doesn't mind physical mistakes..its the mental stuff he has to have down on lock to form a chemistry with A-rod. Heck..Jordy had several drops in SB 45, and that was his "coming out party." No one really knew Jordy Nelson's name until after that game. Oh yeah and not to mention that drop in the Buffalo game last year...still can't let that go. I agree..we won't know who Janis really is till he's thrown into the fire.
 

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If Janis is the guy, I fully expect a lot of good with the bad. I think we'll see him make some huge splash plays and meanwhile, some boneheaded mistakes too.
 
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Where are all these dropped passes you speak of? When you say "greatly reduce" it implies that there has been an egregious excess of drops. I've seen every snap he's played and I've only seen one play where he didn't catch a pass that a defender didn't get a hand on, and even then The Rock said on the radio he was pretty certain a defender got just enough of a finger on it to deflect it's path at the last second. The replay looked like he may have been right. Janis has things to work on, like everyone does, and everyone who has coached him has indicated he has made good progress. With Jordy out, it's time to throw him in the lake and see if he swims. I think he'll do fine, but it would be silly not to expect some hiccups along the way. It took Jordy several seasons to get where he is. It would be unrealistic to expect Janis to do everything Jordy does in his second year and that should not be the standard of measure at this point.

Janis had a drop during yesterday's game on a ball he absolutely has to catch if he wants to get on the field with Rodgers as well as terrible awareness on where he was on the overturned play.

Janis has shown some improvement over last preseason but I don't know if he has taken enough of a step to get significant playing time.

BTW last week you harshly criticized White for dropping a difficult ball and now you're claiming yesterday's drop wasn't Janis' fault. I don't know the reasons behind you being so supportive of him but other posters have repeatedly gotten annoyed by the different standards you use for whatever reason to evaluate him compared to other receivers.
 
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Common sense and what I see on the field. Cobb is easily a 100+ catch type of WR.
Common sense tells me Jordy with 98 receptions last season to Cobb's 91 is even more easily a 100+ catch type of WR. What I see on the field is Nelson, in addition to having more receptions, has a higher average per reception. And I see the opponent's best CB cover Nelson more often (for example the NE game last season) rather than Cobb. BTW, according to nfl.com, Nelson averaged 15.5 yards per reception in each of the last two seasons.
 
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I've seen a few Janis drops that should have been caught.. however I don't think we should hold that against him. Aaron has said himself he doesn't mind physical mistakes..its the mental stuff he has to have down on lock to form a chemistry with A-rod. Heck..Jordy had several drops in SB 45, and that was his "coming out party." No one really knew Jordy Nelson's name until after that game. Oh yeah and not to mention that drop in the Buffalo game last year...still can't let that go. I agree..we won't know who Janis really is till he's thrown into the fire.

It's a major question mark whether Janis has the mental part of the Packers playbook figured out. While Rodgers accepts some physical mistakes from time to time he won't trust anyone constantly dropping passes like Janis did yesterday.
 

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It is a blow. You can sugar coat it all you want and dig out whatever stats you want but Nelson is a proven top 10 WR imo and they're pretty useful!

It annoys me when people or analysts question his ability because ACR is tossing the ball to him. Jordan would be productive is most teams.

However, the cornerstone is 12 and that's where SB hopes rest.
 

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It's a major question mark whether Janis has the mental part of the Packers playbook figured out. While Rodgers accepts some physical mistakes from time to time he won't trust anyone constantly dropping passes like Janis did yesterday.

I wouldn't jump the gun on Aaron not trusting people over drops. James Jones, Jermichael Finely, Jordy Nelson. What do they have in common? They've all gone through spurts of dropped passes..And it didn't necessarily effect Rodgers targets to those players knowing the impact that they could have should he connect with them.
 

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Common sense tells me Jordy with 98 receptions last season to Cobb's 91 is even more easily a 100+ catch type of WR. What I see on the field is Nelson, in addition to having more receptions, has a higher average per reception. And I see the opponent's best CB cover Nelson more often (for example the NE game last season) rather than Cobb. BTW, according to nfl.com, Nelson averaged 15.5 yards per reception in each of the last two seasons.

Of course the best CB will cover Nelson since hes out on the boundary. Cobb is a swiss army knife. He lines up all over the field. Including in the backfield at times. A lot of defenses don't move their CB's around (Seattle for example doesn't) meaning they wont put Sherman on Cobb due to what Cobb does.
 

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I wouldn't jump the gun on Aaron not trusting people over drops. James Jones, Jermichael Finely, Jordy Nelson. What do they have in common? They've all gone through spurts of dropped passes..And it didn't necessarily effect Rodgers targets to those players knowing the impact that they could have should he connect with them.
True, and I would love to see the stats to who Rodgers throws to after they have a drop. It seems to me that every time someone has a drop, he comes back to them on the next play as if to say, we're still good, make the play. At least with the guys he trusts, Jordy, Cobb, Jones, Jennings, Finley, Driver, etc.

And yesterday, Tolzien went to him twice. He dropped what needs to be caught, then on the 2nd opportunity he wasn't aware of where he was on the field. He can't keep doing those things. Screw up once, yeah, make up for it and make sure you do. To me, he still seems like someone that is fairly talented, but doesn't quite have "it" yet. He still could, and i'm hoping he does. Or someone does, we need them too.
 
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... then on the 2nd opportunity he wasn't aware of where he was on the field.
I haven't had a chance to look at that again, but if you're talking about the play that was first ruled in bounds and later changed to not-a-catch I don't know if his awareness was as much of a factor as where Tolzien threw the ball. Perhaps Janis could have dragged a foot but if he had it would have been a spectacular catch. BTW, as I remember it he did catch that ball at full extension so at least his catch radius wasn't an issue on that play.
 

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Initial diagnosis is a mechanical test where they test the laxity of the knee. This is very accurate and good at distinguishing ACL from other ligaments. The MRI usually just assesses the severity of the ACL injury, and doesn't typically provide much new info. Possible that we're talking a less-than-total ACL tear, and that would show up on MRI. Even if that's the case though, we're still looking at IR, no doubt.

Dr. Jene Bramel (to Joe)
Very likely. If Rap (Ian Rapoport) has a reliable source, 95% or higher. An experienced doc doing an exam shouldn't be fooled. I can't remember an instance where a combination of right mechanism and good source proved to be wrong.

Source: footballguys.con

This is what I was trying to say yesterday when folks were saying we shouldn't assume a torn ACL til an MRI confirms it. Initial ACL tests are very accurate and they are very good at isolating it to make sure it is in fact NOT an MCL or PCL. A partial tear also doesn't do any good because it's still a season ender.

I understand holding out hope, it's not perfect and foolproof and mistakes can be made, but you're holding onto a lottery ticket.

Trust me, I'd love a miracle today. The Packers lost a great player and I lost my 2nd best keeper in fantasy as well. :mad:
 
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Mondio

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I haven't had a chance to look at that again, but if you're talking about the play that was first ruled in bounds and later changed to not-a-catch I don't know if his awareness was as much of a factor as where Tolzien threw the ball. Perhaps Janis could have dragged a foot but if he had it would have been a spectacular catch. BTW, as I remember it he did catch that ball at full extension so at least his catch radius wasn't an issue on that play.
yes, it would have been a great catch, and when someone is giving you an opportunity to make a play for the easy on you missed the play before, i think you need to make it. I'm not saying he's horrid and needs to be cut, but those are the plays that separate NFL WR's and fast guys that can catch a football sometimes. I think he'll still make this team, but he seems a long ways away from instilling confidence, in me at least. I think those back to back plays are why he should only be a 5th or 6th option on a team with healthy WR's.
 

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Yes, but any half-competent trainer would have no trouble detecting a Grade 3 and if they detected one, they wouldn't have let him walk to the locker room like that. I'm still banking on a low to moderate severity Grade 2 at this point. Here's hoping...


unless someone here actually is a doctor, correct me if i am wrong but there is no grades of an acl tear. either its torn of not. i am no way the specimen jordy is but when i tore my acl 5 months ago i was not hobbling and making my way across a field like he did. again im not doctor but i did stay at a holiday inn last night. i figured i would share my 2 cents and give ya'all some optimism.
 
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