Jake Ryan

[Sky King]

it wasn't so much about all the players around him, I was focusing on how he handled his assignments. and you're right, it's just one game. Maybe it was his worst one. in WI case, one lineman could win his matchup and still lose the battle along the line. Gordon had nothing going that game, and everybody could see it wasn't because of him. They had a QB that couldn't hit a freaking barn and had one man to defend, Gordon. The Oline got destroyed that game, which isn't that hard to do when you only have one pony to worry about and you're talented on defense. I'm not looking at stats of Ryan in the OH State game to form an opinion. I saw one play I consider pretty average for a linebacker and a whole lot that were nothing close to fitting the bill of a "strong tackler".

But you are right, I hope he turns into a tackling beast. Trust me, I don't want my initial impression to be the correct one and I certainly reserve the right to change my opini0n

I understand the feeling completely. There is one guy on the team right now that I have little hope for amounting to anything: Thornton. But I would love to be very much wrong about my initial impressions of him since they are based on a small sample of his time as a Packer.

 

[easyk83]

If somebody else is, then yes.

It's a problem when it concerns the rare few? So it's a deficiency on the part of your athletic linebacker that he can't run down Jamaal Charles? Tremendous refers to the exceptional, it's not a knock to point out that a player doesn't have tremendous athleticism or freakish speed or exceptional arm strength.

 

[Sanguine camper]

The video against Ohio State is brutal but maybe it was his worst game of the year. I agree you want to what he does against the best competition since the NFL will only get tougher. He had a good combine and put up impressive numbers but then so did Hawk. To me he looks like the kind of ILB that will play decent if the D line can keep blockers off him and he can use his football iq to quickly read the play and flow to the ball. If Ryan is a clone of Hawk that's ok since he is a 4th round pick. The problem with Hawk is that he was the 5th pick in the draft that played like a 4th round pick.

 

[Sky King]

One of my friends used to say about "young" A.J. Hawk is that when he tackles guys they stay tackled. That was a long time ago. He did lead the team in tackles back in the day and he played heavier back then and also spent some time in the 4-3. He got old and slow. Speaking of which, I'm headed off into the next room (kitchen) to grab a beer. I'll be back in about an hour.

 

[GoPGo]

No, I watched it and said " I hope they saw something I didnt. Which clearly they must have because they picked him.

Yes. They obviously looked at a LOT more than one Youtube video.

Then I asked people if they like what they saw, did you? Did you appreciate him being de-cleated by blockers?

You mean like every LB does at times?

Being one on one with a qb and clearly losing that battle?

You mean like every LB does at times?

Maybe he had a bad day

You mean like every LB does at times?

or maybe what is being written doesn't match what's on the tape?

He ranks 7th all-time in tackles for loss at a football program that has been around for 135 years. That isn't "what's written." That's what's measurable.

Either way, I'm pretty sure absolutely certain that TT and his scouting staff are FAR more informed and have better assessed Ryan than any "expert" sitting at home behind a computer ever could.

 

[GoPGo]

The video against Ohio State is brutal but maybe it was his worst game of the year. I agree you want to what he does against the best competition since the NFL will only get tougher.

He will also have tougher, more talented teammates around him as well.

 

[TJV]

Michael Rodney (Packers Notes) writes that he was lukewarm on Ryan until he was done studying him:

He’s not as athletic as Eric Kendricks, Stephone Anthony or Benardrick McKinney and he doesn’t hit as hard as Denzel Perryman or Paul Dawson, but his intensity and feel for the game are truly outstanding. And that, more often than not, makes up for any physical limitations. The other thing I really like about Ryan is his potential to get better. It’s important to remember that he was a standup outside linebacker until his senior season. Clay Matthews made it look seamless, but that’s a very difficult transition. Ryan is still learning how to play the position. He also tore his ACL in the spring of 2013, so he should be moving a lot better this summer than he was last fall and winter. That will allow him to be more effective in pass coverage. My biggest concern with Ryan is his tendency to give ground to get off blocks.

He goes on to say how he struggled against Ohio State and that he'll need the DL to keep him clean. He expects him to compete with Barrington and Bradford for the starting job. Let's all hope Rodney is correct about his potential to get better as he gets farther away from his injury and becomes more familiar with the position.
http://packersnotes.com/2015/05/ryan-offers-hope-inside/

 

[Half Empty]

So not a tremendous athlete is a deficiency?

If somebody else is, then yes.

It's a problem when it concerns the rare few? So it's a deficiency on the part of your athletic linebacker that he can't run down Jamaal Charles? Tremendous refers to the exceptional, it's not a knock to point out that a player doesn't have tremendous athleticism or freakish speed or exceptional arm strength.

Question asked, with no qualifications. Question answered, with the intended qualification that, all things being equal, a lack of tremendous athleticism is a deficiency if the option is tremendous athleticism. Question restated, with qualifiers, so now there isn't a conflict.

 

[Mondio]

Yes. They obviously looked at a LOT more than one Youtube video.



You mean like every LB does at times?



You mean like every LB does at times?



You mean like every LB does at times?



He ranks 7th all-time in tackles for loss at a football program that has been around for 135 years. That isn't "what's written." That's what's measurable.

Either way, I'm pretty sure absolutely certain that TT and his scouting staff are FAR more informed and have better assessed Ryan than any "expert" sitting at home behind a computer ever could.

Probably a third of my posts are about trusting this staff and the GM, so save me your **** about the experts behind a computer. Pretty sure i've never said I know more than they do. Also pretty sure I never called this pick a bust or a bum. I've qualified my statement repeatedly in this thread.

I can guess the response, but I'll ask one more time. Watch the video, do you like what you see? I'm fully aware things happen to everybody "at times", but I ask, did you watch the video? all those things you don't want to see happen to your ILB didn't just happen at times, they seemed to happen almost every play. In about 40 plays there were maybe, and I do mean maybe, a handful (that's about 5 for you smartasses out there) that looked a positive play from him. The rest were mostly anything but. So maybe this is more fitting to be written about him

"He's a strong tackler (at times) he's instinctive (at times) He's strong against the run (at times)"???

I don't care what his stats say, or how many tackles he had. That is just what's written. Ron Dayne re-wrote and held a few records too , how did that fare for him in the NFL?

So for anybody else that hasn't understood what i've said a few times. I know i'm not a scout, I never claimed to be. I know they all know much more than I do, and it doesn't mean they never get it wrong either. I hope they don't just watch one youtube video like I did. I didn't call the guy a bust, I didn't call him a bum. I saw he was picked, I read what the "scouting reports" said. Then I looked for a video of him against good competition and what I saw was a direct contrast to what I had read. if you disagree, maybe point out all the plays where he was swallowed by blockers and tell me why I'm seeing it 'wrong"? or why a QB beats him with contact and in open space and it is not a cause for concern? or maybe line up a video of about 30 plays against good competition where the majority are positive in nature and not negative?

Or not.

 

[DaveRoller]

We've lacked (adequate) athleticism at ILBer for years. Clay's insertion last year was a revelation.

Virtually all the positive descriptors ascribed to Ryan are intangible: intense, smart, assignment sure, etc.

It is his lack of agility/athleticism that marks him as nothing more than a poor man's AJ Hawk. Hope that is not the case.

 

[Packersfanforlife]

I know nothing about Ryan so I looked him up and I found out that, according to profootballfocus, he was the second best run stopper of all ILBs in the draft with a 14.5 run stop percentage

 

[easyk83]

We've lacked (adequate) athleticism at ILBer for years. Clay's insertion last year was a revelation.

Virtually all the positive descriptors ascribed to Ryan are intangible: intense, smart, assignment sure, etc.

It is his lack of agility/athleticism that marks him as nothing more than a poor man's AJ Hawk. Hope that is not the case.

What do you define as adequate?

 

[Half Empty]

What do you define as adequate?

The starting ILBs for the other teams in the league?

 

[TeamTundra]

ESPN aired a post draft review today and Mel Kiper noted that Jake Ryan was his favorite
Overall 4th round pick.

 

[GoPGo]

Then I looked for a video of him against good competition and what I saw was a direct contrast to what I had read. if you disagree, maybe point out all the plays where he was swallowed by blockers and tell me why I'm seeing it 'wrong"? or why a QB beats him with contact and in open space and it is not a cause for concern? or maybe line up a video of about 30 plays against good competition where the majority are positive in nature and not negative?

Or not.

How about because everyone has a bad day? Or how about because you don't know the situation? How do you know he wasn't fighting the flu during that game (in which case he would be a major badass just for playing)? The bottom line here, and the only thing that matters is that the Packers a) know far more about him than anyone on this forum, b) have weighed the positives against the negatives, and c) have determined that those positives far outweigh whatever negatives they observed.

I personally couldn't give two ***** if a QB beat him one on one. How many sacks have you seen Clay whiff? I've personally seen quite a few over the years. So what if he didn't have a good game against OSU? There are plenty of times Peppers didn't have a good game.

Your other argument about him not doing so well in one game against a good team doesn't work either because football is a team sport. He was a damn good player on a 5-7 team last year. He will be surrounded by better talent in the NFL as well. And whether you want to sweep it under the rug or not, it remains that he is 7th all-time in tackles for loss in spite of missing 5 games as a junior. That's an indisputable fact, not some writer's opinion.

BTW, it is worth noting that he had 13 tackles against #21 Utah and 12 tackles against #5 Michigan St. But I guess in your opinion those must not have been good teams.

 

[Mondio]

How about because everyone has a bad day? Or how about because you don't know the situation? How do you know he wasn't fighting the flu during that game (in which case he would be a major badass just for playing)? The bottom line here, and the only thing that matters is that the Packers a) know far more about him than anyone on this forum, b) have weighed the positives against the negatives, and c) have determined that those positives far outweigh whatever negatives they observed.

I personally couldn't give two ***** if a QB beat him one on one. How many sacks have you seen Clay whiff? I've personally seen quite a few over the years. So what if he didn't have a good game against OSU? There are plenty of times Peppers didn't have a good game.

Your other argument about him not doing so well in one game against a good team doesn't work either because football is a team sport. He was a damn good player on a 5-7 team last year. He will be surrounded by better talent in the NFL as well. And whether you want to sweep it under the rug or not, it remains that he is 7th all-time in tackles for loss in spite of missing 5 games as a junior. That's an indisputable fact, not some writer's opinion.

BTW, it is worth noting that he had 13 tackles against #21 Utah and 12 tackles against #5 Michigan St. But I guess in your opinion those must not have been good teams.

so predictable. thank you for telling me what I already know and have said repeatedly. use your stats to tell convince yourself of him. I asked for some video. I guess after asking multiple times, i'm just going to conclude the only thing you'll produce are excuses. Carry on

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Michael Rodney (Packers Notes) writes that he was lukewarm on Ryan until he was done studying him: He goes on to say how he struggled against Ohio State and that he'll need the DL to keep him clean. He expects him to compete with Barrington and Bradford for the starting job. Let's all hope Rodney is correct about his potential to get better as he gets farther away from his injury and becomes more familiar with the position.
http://packersnotes.com/2015/05/ryan-offers-hope-inside/

I would be excited if Ryan is capable of improving in coverage but IMO he lacks ideal agility to be capable of turning into the much needed WLB. I expect him to be able to compete for a starting job with the other ILBs on our roster though.

 

[easyk83]

The starting ILBs for the other teams in the league?

You do realize that from an athleticism standpoint he is above average, right?

 

[easyk83]

I could understand the amount of consternation from some of our members if Teddy selected Ryan in the second round. But this much concern over a 4th rounder, what the hell.

Look at Jake Ryan's combine numbers and compare him to other ILBs/MLBs in the league. Guess what, Ryan's numbers were better than most of them. Heck he even compares well to CJ Mosley and even edges Mosley out in the broad jump, 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle drills.

IMHO, if Jake Ryan wasn't coming off a significant injury his senior season and if he had made the position switch earlier in his career he would not have been there when the Packers drafted in the 4th round.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I could understand the amount of consternation from some of our members if Teddy selected Ryan in the second round. But this much concern over a 4th rounder, what the hell.

Look at Jake Ryan's combine numbers and compare him to other ILBs/MLBs in the league. Guess what, Ryan's numbers were better than most of them. Heck he even compares well to CJ Mosley and even edges Mosley out in the broad jump, 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle drills.

IMHO, if Jake Ryan wasn't coming off a significant injury his senior season and if he had made the position switch earlier in his career he would not have been there when the Packers drafted in the 4th round.

I´m not concerned about Ryan at all but about the Packers ILB position!!! The combine numbers don´t tell the whole story and Mosley was one of the best run stopping inside backers in the NFL as a rookie while being paired with a good cover guy in Daryl Smith.

IMO Ryan will turn out to be a good run defender but he should be paired with a guy capable of covering RBs and TEs.

 

[easyk83]

As for the OSU game, yes he does get knocked around a bit... by guards. Hate to break this to some of you but most NFL linebackers struggle when OLs are able to get on them unmolested and untouched. That's part of the reason teams pull guards and try to get OLs to the second level, it's called a mismatch. I saw good range, good burst, and a some nice form open field tackles as well as a couple TFFLs. Not bad production seeing as his DL seemed to be playing on skates.

The great ILB/MLBs didn't become great because of their ability to fend off OLs at the second level, most of them had good D-lines to keep them clean.

What do I see on tape, he's fast plays with physicality and has good burst... better than advertised by some. That 10 foot broad jump shows up on tape. The bad is that he plays too tight and doesn't look very graceful or natural at the position.

 

[Mondio]

it was stated before, I'll state it again. I know exactly what round he was taken in, it has nothing to do with my comments. It is related directly to the fact that everything i've read about the kid makes him sound like a steal and a hardnosed linebacker. GREAT!!! I was ****ing excited as hell. But I don't watch MI football much, so I looked for a video of him against good competition and it left me far less than impressed.

I"m still waiting for some good reasons why I should be more excited about this pick besides a stat or what someone wrote. Plenty of players have jumped out of a gym, lifted a house and ran around cones faster than a speeding bullet. Some of them also get ran over by QB's, which I just saw this guy do and I can't say it's a quality I look for in a Linebacker.

 

[easyk83]

I´m not concerned about Ryan at all but about the Packers ILB position!!! The combine numbers don´t tell the whole story and Mosley was one of the best run stopping inside backers in the NFL as a rookie while being paired with a good cover guy in Daryl Smith.

IMO Ryan will turn out to be a good run defender but he should be paired with a guy capable of covering RBs and TEs.

The, evidently, team felt confident with Clay Matthews able to play inside on first and second down. Hopefully he'll turn out better than advertised as a cover backer.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The, evidently, team felt confident with Clay Matthews able to play inside on first and second down. Hopefully he'll turn out better than advertised as a cover backer.

It seems Matthews isn´t comfortable playing inside anymore which hopefully won´t lead to any distractions in the locker room. Thompson should have addressed the WLB position by now but inexplicably hasn´t done so far.

 

[easyk83]

it was stated before, I'll state it again. I know exactly what round he was taken in, it has nothing to do with my comments. It is related directly to the fact that everything i've read about the kid makes him sound like a steal and a hardnosed linebacker. GREAT!!! I was ******* excited as hell. But I don't watch MI football much, so I looked for a video of him against good competition and it left me far less than impressed.

I"m still waiting for some good reasons why I should be more excited about this pick besides a stat or what someone wrote. Plenty of players have jumped out of a gym, lifted a house and ran around cones faster than a speeding bullet. Some of them also get ran over by QB's, which I just saw this guy do and I can't say it's a quality I look for in a Linebacker.

Watch the OSU clip again and watch the players around him, specifically his Defensive Line. Look at how often they're put on skates.

Other than that he shows good range, plays aggressively and looks natural in his zone drops I would find excitement in the fact that his tape might not do justice to his NFL ability. Remember, this was his first year laying LB inside and his first year back from an ACL tear. It usually takes a player until his second year back to make a full recovery and regain full confidence in the knee.