Jace out of slot...

[gopkrs]

I am starting to wonder (based on comments here) if Rodgers is making the game more complicated than it should be. Does he grimace after a play because at the line of scrimmage he shrugged his left shoulder but the receiver did not notice it?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I am starting to wonder (based on comments here) if Rodgers is making the game more complicated than it should be. Does he grimace after a play because at the line of scrimmage he shrugged his left shoulder but the receiver did not notice it?

He grimaced because his receiving weapons were Adams (really good!) and a bunch of guys who might be third receivers on the Jaguars (in fact, Lazard was CUT by the Jags).

 

[HardRightEdge]

This part of the article jumped out at me. It's what many of us refer to when talking about how important it is for receivers and Rodgers to have good chemistry. Sounds like what happened in the Playoff game, is a good sign that Jace and #12 are establishing that chemistry.

During the postseason, Sternberger played 39 snaps over two games and caught his first NFL touchdown pass. He said the score against the San Francisco 49ers – caught in the back of the end zone against the coverage of Fred Warner – was partially the result of Aaron Rodgers subtly changing his route at the line of scrimmage. Sternberger saw the signal, made the adjustment and stuck with the route as Rodgers extended the play.

The operative term is "partially". Rodgers' signal wasn't, "I'm going to extend the play right, so cross to the post at the back of the end zone and reverse right on the scramble." The play was obviously made after the route adjustment at the line was executed, but had he not made the adjustment he would not have been in position to execute the scramble drill in the place where the QB expected to find him.

I kind of remember the Sternberger TD and I just watched it on utube. I think it is just bs that there was some communication.

The youtube video is typical of highlight clips. It starts just before the snap. I looked at the replay on Game Pass to see what happened before the snap. Rodgers is talking directly at Sternberger and Sternberger turns toward him. Clearly there was a communication.

 

[Mondio]

I am starting to wonder (based on comments here) if Rodgers is making the game more complicated than it should be. Does he grimace after a play because at the line of scrimmage he shrugged his left shoulder but the receiver did not notice it?

I would bet all this communication that is "signaled" is just a look of understanding to make sure the receiver sees what he sees. People do that all the time that work together. A look in a situation can mean grab me a hammer or get in the truck, run to Menards and get me a different door handle based simply on a look and a situation. It can mean the baby is fine, or get the nicu fired up and down here immediately. Everybody uses non-verbal communication daily with everyone they interact with and we usually know what that means.

I think people are making this more complicated than it needs to be because they're looking for a reason for something. The fact is, just like all QB's and playmakers do, Rodgers and Co. rehearse plays, formations, etc against defenses and it's likely nothing more than acknowledgment between players that both see the defense and the play was already rehearsed a million times for that situation. I doubt it's double tap of the centers *** followed by nose pick and blue 42 but only after a right toe tap means to run route X but if Rodgers uses left hand nose pick after 3 taps of the centers *** it means run route Y.

It's probably more along the lines of eye contact and confirm that the WR saw what Rodgers just saw in terms of defensive alignment or shift. Hike

 

[tynimiller]

I agree that Sternberger looked decent in the limited snaps that he received last season but in my opinion a lot of fans are way too optimistic about him entering this year based on a small sample size.

I would also argue many are far too pessimistic based on such a limited snap count as well.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I would also argue many are far too pessimistic based on such a limited snap count as well.

The appropriate middle ground is that he'll have some good games but will be hit-or-miss depending on gameplan and he'll continue to get better as the season progresses. He won't be a reliable passing game threat until the end of the year (at best) but he'll show flashes that make people excited about his third season.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Here's a Kittle tape with some successful seam routes, with little of it it having to do with speed.

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I've noted previously that Kittle looks a lot bigger and somewhat slower than a 6' 4", 247 lb. player running 4.52 which was the player Kittle was at the Combine. His upper body approaches that of an OT.

I painfully draw your attention to the play at 5:41 well illustrated from the end zone view. This was about play design and route running, not speed.

Kittle attacks Savage with the flag move, gets him turned around, and breaks to space. With Kittle in full stride, Alexander closes 10 yards on Kittle's last 25 yards. There's no notable speed in any of this.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Does he grimace after a play because at the line of scrimmage he shrugged his left shoulder but the receiver did not notice it?

I'm sure that's an exageration, and in this case Rodgers spoke directly to Sternberger and he turned his head from a 3-point stance in acknowlegement.

But it begs the question whether Adams is making the game more complicated than it needs to be when he motions a route change with a hand signal and then Rodgers delivers the ball for a TD.

What is not complicated is that dumbing stuff down doesn't work. The closer a receiver can get to approximating Adams field smarts the more balls he will get and the more money he will make. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Packers need a reliable, preferably very good, outside receiver with speed; they have a bunch of guys on the roster who excel in the short to intermediate area but nobody on the roster who defenses really have to be concerned about beating them deep on any down. Everyone focuses on slot receivers, and they don't have anyone elite in the slot (outside of Adams who can play there), but the team DOES have guys that can reliably play in the slot on the roster. They don't have anyone who has the reliability and physical skills to be a deep threat. MVS might turn the corner and become that guy (his third year, who knows) but drafting someone who can do that would help open things up for Adams/Sternberger/Lazard/Funchess/Jones underneath.

I'd prefer the Packers draft a guy like Reagor, Mims, or Aiyuk over a primarily slot receiver like Jefferson if they go WR early.

Agreed. Some mocks have Jefferson going to GB at #30. He’s almost purely a slot guy. They need a fast, reliable wide out (who doesn’t?). But what I mean is that a wide out is preferable than a slot guy. I’m a little surprised they didn’t use Kumerow more out of the slot (or maybe they did and I didn’t notice). He’s a reliable route runner and has great hands to compensate for a lack of speed. He also has a motor with one gear - all out (if that’s technically a “gear”).

 

[Heyjoe4]

Here's a Kittle tape with some successful seam routes, with little of it it having to do with speed.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

I've noted previously that Kittle looks a lot bigger and somewhat slower than a 6' 4", 247 lb. player running 4.52 which was the player Kittle was at the Combine. His upper body approaches that of an OT.

I painfully draw your attention to the play at 5:41 well illustrated from the end zone view. This was about play design and route running, not speed.

Kittle attacks Savage with the flag move, gets him turned around, and breaks to space. With Kittle in full stride, Alexander closes 10 yards on Kittle's last 25 yards. There's no notable speed in any of this.

Good point. IMO, speed is overrated when it comes to evaluating a player. Precise route running and the ability to separate don’t necessarily require speed. I’m speaking of the TE position. The Packers still need a strong, fast wide out to play opposite Adams. They will likely address that in the draft.

 

[Heyjoe4]

[QUOTE="gopkrs, post: 871262, member: 9942"Does he grimace after a play because at the line of scrimmage he shrugged his left shoulder but the receiver did not notice it?

I'm sure that's an exageration, and in this case Rodgers spoke directly to Sternberger and he turned his head from a 3-point stance in acknowlegement.

But it begs the question whether Adams is making the game more complicated than it needs to be when he motions a route change with a hand signal and then Rodgers delivers the ball for a TD.

What is not complicated is that dumbing stuff down doesn't work. The closer a receiver can get to approximating Adams field smarts the more balls he will get and the more money he will make. It doesn't get much simpler than that.[/QUOTE]
Yeah “field smarts” isn’t really tested. Guys who are smarter than most, but maybe not as physically talented, can still do very well in the NFL.

 

[GleefulGary]

Agreed. Some mocks have Jefferson going to GB at #30. He’s almost purely a slot guy. They need a fast, reliable wide out (who doesn’t?). But what I mean is that a wide out is preferable than a slot guy. I’m a little surprised they didn’t use Kumerow more out of the slot (or maybe they did and I didn’t notice). He’s a reliable route runner and has great hands to compensate for a lack of speed. He also has a motor with one gear - all out (if that’s technically a “gear”).

Kumerow isn't good.

 

[gopkrs]

[QUOTE="gopkrs, post: 871262, member: 9942"Does he grimace after a play because at the line of scrimmage he shrugged his left shoulder but the receiver did not notice it?

I'm sure that's an exageration, and in this case Rodgers spoke directly to Sternberger and he turned his head from a 3-point stance in acknowlegement.

But it begs the question whether Adams is making the game more complicated than it needs to be when he motions a route change with a hand signal and then Rodgers delivers the ball for a TD.

What is not complicated is that dumbing stuff down doesn't work. The closer a receiver can get to approximating Adams field smarts the more balls he will get and the more money he will make. It doesn't get much simpler than that.[/QUOTE]

Yes, an exaggeration. I am sure there are some signals that can be made at the line of scrimmage. Especially on those little quick w/o catches. And I am sure Adams can somehow tell Rodgers that he thinks he can get deep if he sees the DB playing too close or too far to the middle. On that play to Sterberger, if there was a signal; I think it was for a quick pass which was evidently not there. I think the getting open was Sternberger taking advantage of the collapsed pocket and scramble. Defensive backfields are very good at disguising what they are going to do these days. So I think the receivers need to have a certain latitude for improvising. I don't consider that dumbing down. It does get difficult though if the play calls for a receiver to keep running when it would be much better if he stopped in the hole.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Kumerow isn't good.

Maybe, maybe not. We certainly haven’t seen much from him, or anyone not named Adams or Lazard.

I’m just wondering if there is someone on the roster who can play out of the slot. Gluten’s draft strategy will tell a lot. Maybe he thinks that with Adams, Lazard, and now Funchess, all he needs in one impactful WR in the draft. And does he draft for the slot or for a true wide out opposite Adams, a guy with some speed? I don’t know the answer to that question.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I would also argue many are far too pessimistic based on such a limited snap count as well.

I'm not pessimistic but cautious about Sternberger's chances to have an impact this season. While it's widely accepted that even first round selections at tight end take some years to develop into decent players at the NFL there's wishful thinking going on around here expecting Sternberger to put up impressive numbers in his second season after hardly playing at all during his rookie campaign.

In my opinion that's not justified at all.

But what I mean is that a wide out is preferable than a slot guy.

In my opinion the Packers need a slot receiver first and foremost. It would be a bonus if he could line up on the outside as well.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm not pessimistic but cautious about Sternberger's chances to have an impact this season. While it's widely accepted that even first round selections at tight end take some years to develop into decent players at the NFL there's wishful thinking going on around here expecting Sternberger to put up impressive numbers in his second season after hardly playing at all during his rookie campaign.

In my opinion that's not justified at all.



In my opinion the Packers need a slot receiver first and foremost. It would be a bonus if he could line up on the outside as well.

Well I’m not gonna complain if the best available WR at #30 is a slot guy.

 

[GleefulGary]

I'm not pessimistic but cautious about Sternberger's chances to have an impact this season. While it's widely accepted that even first round selections at tight end take some years to develop into decent players at the NFL there's wishful thinking going on around here expecting Sternberger to put up impressive numbers in his second season after hardly playing at all during his rookie campaign.

In my opinion that's not justified at all.



In my opinion the Packers need a slot receiver first and foremost. It would be a bonus if he could line up on the outside as well.

Cap, I'll make the same bet with you that I did with Dantes.

Sternberger will be within 100 yards of Hooper by the end of the year, with a higher YPC.

Deal?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Cap, I'll make the same bet with you that I did with Dantes.

Sternberger will be within 100 yards of Hooper by the end of the year, with a higher YPC.

Deal?

Deal, what's the wager???

 

[GleefulGary]

Deal, what's the wager???

Hmmm...signature change for the season?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

In my opinion the Packers need a slot receiver first and foremost. It would be a bonus if he could line up on the outside as well.

I'm not going to say the Packers are set at slot receiver (obviously they're not), but they really need an elite outside receiver as much as a slot guy. They have a bunch of big, slow receivers that can play the slot just fine and an elite outside receiver in Adams that can dominate the short/intermediate game (as well as be an elite slot receiver). Again, upgrading the slot WR spot would be nice, but I'd prefer a guy who could play outside with the ability to occasionally play the slot if he has to.

I'd also take into account how much MLF wants to run the ball and having a bigger slot receiver might be something he likes?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm not going to say the Packers are set at slot receiver (obviously they're not), but they really need an elite outside receiver as much as a slot guy. They have a bunch of big, slow receivers that can play the slot just fine and an elite outside receiver in Adams that can dominate the short/intermediate game (as well as be an elite slot receiver). Again, upgrading the slot WR spot would be nice, but I'd prefer a guy who could play outside with the ability to occasionally play the slot if he has to.

The Packers have Funchess and Lazard who could be decent starters opposite of Adams. They don't have any receiver best suited to line up in the slot though.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The Packers have Funchess and Lazard who could be decent starters opposite of Adams. They don't have any receiver best suited to line up in the slot though.

It depends on what you want from the slot receiver. Lazard could easily play the slot the same way that elite TEs play the slot; not as well, but in the same way, because he's a very big, though somewhat slow WR. Same could be said for Funchess. No, the Packers don't have a quick, shifty WR to play the slot but, as I said, with how much MLF wants to run the ball, playing a big WR in the slot might be something they like.

All that being said, if the Packers go Josh Jones in round 1 and then KJ Hill in round 2, I would be perfectly fine with that. I wouldn't be as excited as say Pittman/Mims in round 1 and Driscoll/Cleveland in round 2 but Hill is would be a ready-made slot receiver that should be there at the end of round 2 (I would also be ecstatic with Mims/Pittman in round 1 and Hill in round 2 as well). I would prefer Hill in round 2 over Jefferson in round 1; Hill has shown he can be amazing in the slot and Hill can beat man coverage, something Jefferson has issues with at this point.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It depends on what you want from the slot receiver. Lazard could easily play the slot the same way that elite TEs play the slot; not as well, but in the same way, because he's a very big, though somewhat slow WR. Same could be said for Funchess. No, the Packers don't have a quick, shifty WR to play the slot but, as I said, with how much MLF wants to run the ball, playing a big WR in the slot might be something they like.

The Packers could definitely line up Adams, Funchess or Lazard in the slot on a certain amount of snaps but in my opinion need to add a quick, shifty receiver to play the majority of the snaps there.

 

[gopkrs]

The Packers could definitely line up Adams, Funchess or Lazard in the slot on a certain amount of snaps but in my opinion need to add a quick, shifty receiver to play the majority of the snaps there.

What about Shephard? He is quick and shifty and has not had a chance yet. People like to talk about his missed catch near the goal line, but everyone was slipping that game and that was why he did not catch the ball.

 

[GleefulGary]

What about Shephard? He is quick and shifty and has not had a chance yet. People like to talk about his missed catch near the goal line, but everyone was slipping that game and that was why he did not catch the ball.

Hasn't had a chance yet?

Oh he had more chances than most players of his quality would've.