Is Aaron Rodgers Better Than Tom Brady?

[PackersRS]

I always tried to shy away from best QB debates or best ever. I just never ranked them either. I always favored Montana and Unitas overall though.

You can't usually change people's minds. Everyone has their personal favorites now and all time.

I will say though that with my team being a current disaster the Packers are pretty much giving me my football joy this year when it comes to good teams. I adore watching your team and your staff going back to last year.

Rodgers is a huge part of it too. He is a special player and QB and still so young. He is great for football. We needed a new start to emerge, a new face of the league. He is the most exciting QB for me to watch thats for sure.

Would like to know your opinion on Manning/Unitas...

 

[PackersFanfromCali80]

Hell, I think a healthy Peyton Manning is better than Tom Brady so I am going to say as of right now Rodgers is better than Brady. Brady is a bad boy no doubt. This same exact offense with Matt Cassell at the helm a couple of years won 10+ games so is Brady really all that great?

 

[Eric87]

Hell, I think a healthy Peyton Manning is better than Tom Brady so I am going to say as of right now Rodgers is better than Brady. Brady is a bad boy no doubt. This same exact offense with Matt Cassell at the helm a couple of years won 10+ games so is Brady really all that great?

They won 11 games with Cassel and then won 10 games the next year with Brady. Therefore Cassel is better than Brady? That 11 win season is overused to discredit Brady and I think it's bunk.

2007 Brady: 16-0 589 pts, +315 pts
2008 Cassel: 11-5 410 pts, +101 pts
2009 Brady: 10-6 427 pts, +142 pts
2010 Brady: 14-2 518 pts, +205 pts

 

[Jules]

Hell, I think a healthy Peyton Manning is better than Tom Brady so I am going to say as of right now Rodgers is better than Brady. Brady is a bad boy no doubt. This same exact offense with Matt Cassell at the helm a couple of years won 10+ games so is Brady really all that great?

Not to mention, Brady sometimes gets an insane amount of time to throw the ball. The **** and dunk offense they excelled at last year was nice to watch but I knew that this was not the same team of the dynasty years. Vrabel, Tedy, Rodney etc. are not going to walk through that door.

Like you I think Brady is good, I just never was a firm believer in the best argument ever with him and the Montana comparisons either and especially based on the loss in the SB to the Giants and the last few years in the playoffs. You took him out and won 11 games with Matt freaking Cassel in 08. That Pats team with Cassel nearly beat my Colts team in Indy for Gods sake.

I never made a case for Manning being the best ever but boy oh boy the Colts are at the bottom of the barrel without him. I always knew Manning was valuable to my team but this is frankly a bit ridiculous.

I am the first to admit that Manning has not always brought his best in the playoffs at all times. But, at the same time it's a team game and Caldwell is not Tony Dungy either. I have seen the man more then once call time outs to help the other team win.

In 2009 Manning gets a lot of flack for the SB loss and he deserves some. Our offense was not clicking in that game and went downhill as soon as the onside kick happened and it ended with the most unfortunate pick I ever saw. I sorta think it was just the Saints year though and especially how they made Favre do the same. Like those Saints just made you muck up. However, Manning flat out carried the Colts that year. We had multiple comebacks, a rookie head coach, the worst run game in the league and our defense was always questionable.

 

[Jules]

Would like to know your opinion on Manning/Unitas...

I am too young to give an accurate opinion on Unitas, probably should have stuck with just Montana with my opinion. My father is the one who always raved about him and showed me tapes on him all the time growing up etc. I was kind of brainwashed at a young age to think of his as the best ever or up there lol. But, you have an argument for him thats for sure.

Unitas was pretty special. I think he is underrated a lot in terms of best ever arguments.

Actually I am way too young at 31 years old to give accurate opinions of these past greats lol. I just know from tapes and from family.

 

[PackersRS]

They won 11 games with Cassel and then won 10 games the next year with Brady. Therefore Cassel is better than Brady? That 11 win season is overused to discredit Brady and I think it's bunk.

2007 Brady: 16-0 589 pts, +315 pts
2008 Cassel: 11-5 410 pts, +101 pts
2009 Brady: 10-6 427 pts, +142 pts
2010 Brady: 14-2 518 pts, +205 pts

I agree with this a lot.

Cassel is the quintessential system QB. He is bad at playing under center and cannot throw accurately deep and intermediate balls.

 

[PackersRS]

I am too young to give an accurate opinion on Unitas, probably should have stuck with just Montana with my opinion. My father is the one who always raved about him and showed me tapes on him all the time growing up etc. I was kind of brainwashed at a young age to think of his as the best ever or up there lol. But, you have an argument for him thats for sure.

Unitas was pretty special. I think he is underrated a lot in terms of best ever arguments.

Actually I am way too young at 31 years old to give accurate opinions of these past greats lol. I just know from tapes and from family.

I was asking because I'm a firmly believer that, though I didn't see him, Starr is the best QB ever, because of his postseason stats, his accomplishments, and mainly because HE ran the Packers offense.

And Unitas had even more say on the offense than Starr (though his postseason stats aren't as good, and he played on a loaded team, not as loaded as the Packers, but more suited to the passing game).

They say Manning is his own OC, they don't know what they're talking about. In this era, they're correct, nobody has more leeway than Manning in the NFL, but the real OC was Unitas, the guy CREATED HIS OWN PLAYBOOK, and not only called the plays. Something that Starr didn't do.

 

[Jules]

I was asking because I'm a firmly believer that, though I didn't see him, Starr is the best QB ever, because of his postseason stats, his accomplishments, and mainly because HE ran the Packers offense.

And Unitas had even more say on the offense than Starr (though his postseason stats aren't as good, and he played on a loaded team, not as loaded as the Packers, but more suited to the passing game).

They say Manning is his own OC, they don't know what they're talking about. In this era, they're correct, nobody has more leeway than Manning in the NFL, but the real OC was Unitas, the guy CREATED HIS OWN PLAYBOOK, and not only called the plays. Something that Starr didn't do.

You could be right. Like I have already said, it's a matter of opinion. Starr may be the best ever. For some like my father it is possibly Unitas although he has him as a toss up with Montana.

Manning is great. I hope it's not the end of him but I heard a rumor that in August he still could not grip a football. Damn, but this was before surgery #2 but now I sometimes here he can't turn his head in one direction. I hope it does not end like this for him.

I am possibly even more impressed with Rodgers then I ever have been with Manning. And this is huge for me to say. Rodgers' athletic ability is what sets him apart. I never raved and went nuts over Brady outside a few games in 07 but even then a lot of it to me was Moss being Moss. I could be biased being that the Pats have been our biggest rival for many years, but I was always more impressed with the team as a whole when they won Super Bowl's over anything Brady did.

Rodgers does have a loaded offense but your o line is not anything to get too excited over. He keeps plays alive quite a bit and gives me a wtf how did he do that moment or two every game it seems.

 

[PackersRS]

Another mind-blowing stat for Rodgers:

http://twitter.com/#!/ProFootbalFocus/status/123890481754148864

Aaron Rodgers is completing 80.5% of his aimed passes (taking away throw aways, spikes, drops etc). Leads NFL

80% of aimed passes is just unfair, really...

 

[Jules]

Another mind-blowing stat for Rodgers:

http://twitter.com/#!/ProFootbalFocus/status/123890481754148864

80% of aimed passes is just unfair, really...

Thread is over then. Aaron leads the league now.

He is only 27 so clearly he does not have the past to go along with it but he should someday with good health blessing him hopefully.

 

[Croak]

Starr vs Unitas has been around a looonggg time. My friends and I used to argue over who was better at that time, Bart Starr or Johnny U. I always took Bart, they always took Johnny U. It's funny to see the same old debate resurface from time to time after all these years.

 

[whoartthou]

Hell, I think a healthy Peyton Manning is better than Tom Brady so I am going to say as of right now Rodgers is better than Brady. Brady is a bad boy no doubt. This same exact offense with Matt Cassell at the helm a couple of years won 10+ games so is Brady really all that great?

I had a feeling someone would bring this up.

Cassel had a cupcake of a schedule (probably the easiest schedule the pats had the past decade). And besides, cassel did lead the kc to the playoffs last year, so its not like hes some shmuck.

NO peyton manning is not>>> tom brady. Did you see peytons superbowl win? One of the worst displays from a qb ever IMO

 

[whoartthou]

Not to mention, Brady sometimes gets an insane amount of time to throw the ball. The **** and dunk offense they excelled at last year was nice to watch but I knew that this was not the same team of the dynasty years. Vrabel, Tedy, Rodney etc. are not going to walk through that door.

Like you I think Brady is good, I just never was a firm believer in the best argument ever with him and the Montana comparisons either and especially based on the loss in the SB to the Giants and the last few years in the playoffs. You took him out and won 11 games with Matt freaking Cassel in 08. That Pats team with Cassel nearly beat my Colts team in Indy for Gods sake.

I never made a case for Manning being the best ever but boy oh boy the Colts are at the bottom of the barrel without him. I always knew Manning was valuable to my team but this is frankly a bit ridiculous.

I am the first to admit that Manning has not always brought his best in the playoffs at all times. But, at the same time it's a team game and Caldwell is not Tony Dungy either. I have seen the man more then once call time outs to help the other team win.

In 2009 Manning gets a lot of flack for the SB loss and he deserves some. Our offense was not clicking in that game and went downhill as soon as the onside kick happened and it ended with the most unfortunate pick I ever saw. I sorta think it was just the Saints year though and especially how they made Favre do the same. Like those Saints just made you muck up. However, Manning flat out carried the Colts that year. We had multiple comebacks, a rookie head coach, the worst run game in the league and our defense was always questionable.

you do realize brady led a game winning drive for the patriots against the giants right? If it wasent for that "lucky" throw and catch by manning/plexico, brady has 4 rings. The hate on brady from you colts fans has always been ridiculous IMO

 

[whoartthou]

You could be right. Like I have already said, it's a matter of opinion. Starr may be the best ever. For some like my father it is possibly Unitas although he has him as a toss up with Montana.

Manning is great. I hope it's not the end of him but I heard a rumor that in August he still could not grip a football. Damn, but this was before surgery #2 but now I sometimes here he can't turn his head in one direction. I hope it does not end like this for him.

I am possibly even more impressed with Rodgers then I ever have been with Manning. And this is huge for me to say. Rodgers' athletic ability is what sets him apart. I never raved and went nuts over Brady outside a few games in 07 but even then a lot of it to me was Moss being Moss. I could be biased being that the Pats have been our biggest rival for many years, but I was always more impressed with the team as a whole when they won Super Bowl's over anything Brady did.

Rodgers does have a loaded offense but your o line is not anything to get too excited over. He keeps plays alive quite a bit and gives me a wtf how did he do that moment or two every game it seems.

So according to this, brady's 2007 season was just a fluke because moss carried him, right?

 

[whoartthou]

to be quite honest, and this might be going off-topic a little bit, but i never thought much of manning. Sure he was this regular season beast, but once the playoffs came, he just fluked every time. He was known for his chokes in the playoffs and this really pissed me off (and i was always a neutral fan before getting more involved with the patriots)

I mean when he won his lone superbowl, he had one of the worst performances ever as a qb... and than in 2009 when he had a chance to show us what he was made out of... he throws a pick 6. That is the worst possible thing that could happen IMO. I mean his interception was 100 percent on manning, not the receiver. Manning just seems to get "tight" in those pressure moments, i never understood it. I guess he doesnt have that "coolness" that a rodgers or brady possesses. I believe this is what separates brady and manning (and rodgers too if he keeps up with this pace). Manning is still a great quarterback IMO, but once the playoffs roll, he just drops a few notches... quite unfortunate.

 

[Jules]

to be quite honest, and this might be going off-topic a little bit, but i never thought much of manning. Sure he was this regular season beast, but once the playoffs came, he just fluked every time. He was known for his chokes in the playoffs and this really pissed me off (and i was always a neutral fan before getting more involved with the patriots)

I mean when he won his lone superbowl, he had one of the worst performances ever as a qb... and than in 2009 when he had a chance to show us what he was made out of... he throws a pick 6. That is the worst possible thing that could happen IMO. I mean his interception was 100 percent on manning, not the receiver. Manning just seems to get "tight" in those pressure moments, i never understood it. I guess he doesnt have that "coolness" that a rodgers or brady possesses. I believe this is what separates brady and manning (and rodgers too if he keeps up with this pace). Manning is still a great quarterback IMO, but once the playoffs roll, he just drops a few notches... quite unfortunate.

Before getting involved with the Pats? When did you jump on the wagon?

0-5 without Manning speaks for itself so far, this team effing blows. I love them, but they are a a mess.It is so sad to watch but I knew this would happen. I have picked the Colts to lose every week this season. When your so called yearly playoff team cannot even beat the Browns or Chiefs at home what does that say for the rest of the organization? The security blanket named Peyton is gone.

This is a one man organization now and while I have said he never had his best in all playoff games it's tough to put them all on him. Frankly, I am a bit disgusted that this team is so bad without one man.

Personally, I am sorta in the "Suck for Luck" mentality. Peyton is 35. Would be nice to have a young stud to develop. I am a Colts fan, not just a Peyton fan. But, man oh man is Peyton valuable to this team. Scary. If you can't beat the Browns or Chiefs at home of the NFL who can you beat? Who is responsible for this mess?

You guys in some ways turned into the 2004 Colts the last few years. No D and having to depend on your QB to put up 30 a game or more. Back to back one and dones.

you do realize brady led a game winning drive for the patriots against the giants right? If it wasent for that "lucky" throw and catch by manning/plexico, brady has 4 rings. The hate on brady from you colts fans has always been ridiculous IMO

Yes I realize this..
You had maybe the highest scoring offense of all time+ You were playing indoors against a team you put over 30 on in week 17.

14 points? Pats offense could do better then that. I will say though it's one of the few games that year that Brady did not have enough time to knit sweaters before each throw. Giants d line was lights out.

I don't hate Brady as much as you think. I just don't think he is the best of all time or the best currently in the league. Not hate, I respect the man. I respect him as an elite QB. I don't have to be all over his nuts though. Without the old D you guys used to have though it's going to be tougher to win a title. Brady won't pass his way to a SB title. Manning never did without the help of his D and run game in 2006. Brady won't either unless he gets a full team effort.

That is what separates Rodgers at times. He is a passer with athletic ability. He can make and extend plays a Manning or Brady could never do. It's just a different beast at times. Rodgers will also need his D and the rest of the team to play well though in the playoffs to repeat.

 

[Jules]

I had a feeling someone would bring this up.

Cassel had a cupcake of a schedule (probably the easiest schedule the pats had the past decade). And besides, cassel did lead the kc to the playoffs last year, so its not like hes some shmuck.

NO peyton manning is not>>> tom brady. Did you see peytons superbowl win? One of the worst displays from a qb ever IMO

I never saw Peyton's Super Bowl win. I did see the COLTS Super Bowl win. Come on man, it's not just the QB all the time.

Was not that bad. It was pouring rain and he ran the ball. I am thrilled they ran the ball a ton in that postseason. We should have run the ball more in past postseason losses.

Super Bowls are important but it's still a team sport.

I am not a homer either. I swear. I have said a million times in my life that Peyton has not always brought his best to many big games. I still think he is/was terrific though. If it's the end for him then he had a HOF career no doubt.

 

[Pat4DaPack]

really? Do you happen to have a quote about this from dilfer? i thought dilfer hates rodgers haha

I just saw it on ESPN yesterday.

 

[Jules]

Dilfer said something about Rodgers being the most complete QB. Being able to make throws in the pocket and also being able to do things on his legs or extend plays outside the pocket.

 

[whoartthou]

Dilfer said something about Rodgers being the most complete QB. Being able to make throws in the pocket and also being able to do things on his legs or extend plays outside the pocket.

how much stock should we put into dilfers opinions though? I am not saying that rodgers isnt a complete quarterback, but is he the only one saying this? What about "legit" analysts who are unbiased (From my understanding, isnt dilfer a rodgers homer).

IMO, rodgers is the most complete qb that i have seen

 

[whoartthou]

Before getting involved with the Pats? When did you jump on the wagon?

0-5 without Manning speaks for itself so far, this team effing blows. I love them, but they are a a mess.It is so sad to watch but I knew this would happen. I have picked the Colts to lose every week this season. When your so called yearly playoff team cannot even beat the Browns or Chiefs at home what does that say for the rest of the organization? The security blanket named Peyton is gone.

This is a one man organization now and while I have said he never had his best in all playoff games it's tough to put them all on him. Frankly, I am a bit disgusted that this team is so bad without one man.

Personally, I am sorta in the "Suck for Luck" mentality. Peyton is 35. Would be nice to have a young stud to develop. I am a Colts fan, not just a Peyton fan. But, man oh man is Peyton valuable to this team. Scary. If you can't beat the Browns or Chiefs at home of the NFL who can you beat? Who is responsible for this mess?

You guys in some ways turned into the 2004 Colts the last few years. No D and having to depend on your QB to put up 30 a game or more. Back to back one and dones.

Yes I realize this..
You had maybe the highest scoring offense of all time+ You were playing indoors against a team you put over 30 on in week 17.

14 points? Pats offense could do better then that. I will say though it's one of the few games that year that Brady did not have enough time to knit sweaters before each throw. Giants d line was lights out.

I don't hate Brady as much as you think. I just don't think he is the best of all time or the best currently in the league. Not hate, I respect the man. I respect him as an elite QB. I don't have to be all over his nuts though. Without the old D you guys used to have though it's going to be tougher to win a title. Brady won't pass his way to a SB title. Manning never did without the help of his D and run game in 2006. Brady won't either unless he gets a full team effort.

That is what separates Rodgers at times. He is a passer with athletic ability. He can make and extend plays a Manning or Brady could never do. It's just a different beast at times. Rodgers will also need his D and the rest of the team to play well though in the playoffs to repeat.

Umm, of course its a team effort. Your whole team has to play well in order to win a sb. Look at mannings superbowl win... his defense played LIGHTS OUT in that superbowl.

Yea, the patriots had a let-down in that 2007 sb, but i believe a lot of it had to do with moss... i dunno what was wrong with him. He seemed shook.

That DL was crazy though, how many sacks did brady take? I still can't believe brady led that game winning drive after all those sacks... that takes some willpower, eh? Also, lets be honest, the way that the giants DL played that year... i don't think 95 % of quarterbacks would be able to put up many points when you are constantly getting sacked and pressured. Maybe rodgers could, who knows.

Yea the one and done's **** me off greatly, but i believe the jets game was a very winnable game. I think the patriots have a good shot at the SB this year, we have great tight ends, great slot receiver, and hopefully our pathetic defense meshes. Mccourty has shown flashes of brilliance too.

I think these two one and dones also prove how overrated belichick has been. He has proven that he can't just turn ANY team into a defensive monster. Belichick is one of the greats coaching wise.... but a little overrated. He seems stubborn at times (i.e. does not want to get more outside help when it comes to a coaching standpoint). He did get us a couple of SB'S though!

All in all, from what i have seen of rodgers so far and brady (manning as well), once the playoffs roll around, i would take a brady or rodgers. Manning just doesnt seem to cut it for me in the playoffs (his playoff record shows this... its just unfortunate imo).

I have heard a lot of things about Andrew luck, supposedly the next peyton manning (go figure). Is he really that good? Is the hype around him deserved? I heard he is the most hyped qb prospect since john elway!

 

[whoartthou]

I never saw Peyton's Super Bowl win. I did see the COLTS Super Bowl win. Come on man, it's not just the QB all the time.

Was not that bad. It was pouring rain and he ran the ball. I am thrilled they ran the ball a ton in that postseason. We should have run the ball more in past postseason losses.

Super Bowls are important but it's still a team sport.

I am not a homer either. I swear. I have said a million times in my life that Peyton has not always brought his best to many big games. I still think he is/was terrific though. If it's the end for him then he had a HOF career no doubt.

Of course he had a HOF career. Only haters would say otherwise.

Superbowls are the most important. Once you get a taste of them, nothing else seems to matter anymore. All these "records" that your team compiles mean nothing without a SB IMO.

 

[Jules]

Umm, of course its a team effort. Your whole team has to play well in order to win a sb. Look at mannings superbowl win... his defense played LIGHTS OUT in that superbowl.

Yea, the patriots had a let-down in that 2007 sb, but i believe a lot of it had to do with moss... i dunno what was wrong with him. He seemed shook.

That DL was crazy though, how many sacks did brady take? I still can't believe brady led that game winning drive after all those sacks... that takes some willpower, eh? Also, lets be honest, the way that the giants DL played that year... i don't think 95 % of quarterbacks would be able to put up many points when you are constantly getting sacked and pressured. Maybe rodgers could, who knows.

Yea the one and done's **** me off greatly, but i believe the jets game was a very winnable game. I think the patriots have a good shot at the SB this year, we have great tight ends, great slot receiver, and hopefully our pathetic defense meshes. Mccourty has shown flashes of brilliance too.

I think these two one and dones also prove how overrated belichick has been. He has proven that he can't just turn ANY team into a defensive monster. Belichick is one of the greats coaching wise.... but a little overrated. He seems stubborn at times (i.e. does not want to get more outside help when it comes to a coaching standpoint). He did get us a couple of SB'S though!

All in all, from what i have seen of rodgers so far and brady (manning as well), once the playoffs roll around, i would take a brady or rodgers. Manning just doesnt seem to cut it for me in the playoffs (his playoff record shows this... its just unfortunate imo).

I have heard a lot of things about Andrew luck, supposedly the next peyton manning (go figure). Is he really that good? Is the hype around him deserved? I heard he is the most hyped qb prospect since john elway!

You have a shot at the SB this year. I also don't mean to be too tough on Brady. I don't think anyone can go wrong with picking Brady, Rodgers or even Brees. There are some terrific QBs out there. Just that Rodgers has skills some don't have right now.

Like I have said, I am not that much of a homer. I have heard it all about Manning and my Colts. A lot of it has been said by me at times. I think Peyton is ridiculously good but has not always brought his A game to the playoffs. But, at the same time I have often hated our soft and conservative coaching staff and the "do what we do." I don't feel like we bring anything new in the postseason either. We just kinda roll with what we do all year expecting it to work while our opponents often bring in new wrinkles.

If you think Belichick is overrated I would glady take him over Caldwell though. But, I get what you mean. While I think he is an all time great head coach it baffles me how he can't turn your D around again. Are they still ranked dead last? Sheesh. I also thought Rex outcoached him in the playoffs last year. In the SB against the Giants yes I do admit that your o line was pretty much having to wave the white flag.

As for Luck, hey I love the guy. I would take him. I am not sure it is meant to be for us though since we have strong competition. Just seems pretty tempting to me.

 

[Jules]

Of course he had a HOF career. Only haters would say otherwise.

Superbowls are the most important. Once you get a taste of them, nothing else seems to matter anymore. All these "records" that your team compiles mean nothing without a SB IMO.

Yeah I know. It's tough to win it all though, so much seems to have to click. So when we got the first one I savored it but 2005 was the real year IMO that got away. Between the death of Dungy's son and resting too much I felt a season that appeared to be "ours" went down the drain. That still remains to me my most painful loss; 2005 divisional loss to Pittsburgh at home. I was not even as mad losing to the Saints even though we were there in the big one. I like Brees and I felt they were a great team. We deserved to lose that SB the way we played and were outcoached. Too many big mistakes. I still don't think the Steelers were better then those 2005 Colts though to this day. We choked.

When you lose to a team that you feel might be better then you or at least your equal it can be easier to swallow. When you feel your team blew it then thats a different story. I guess thats how Pats fans may feel about the Giants SB or last year to the Jets.

 

[whoartthou]

You have a shot at the SB this year. I also don't mean to be too tough on Brady. I don't think anyone can go wrong with picking Brady, Rodgers or even Brees. There are some terrific QBs out there. Just that Rodgers has skills some don't have right now.

Like I have said, I am not that much of a homer. I have heard it all about Manning and my Colts. A lot of it has been said by me at times. I think Peyton is ridiculously good but has not always brought his A game to the playoffs. But, at the same time I have often hated our soft and conservative coaching staff and the "do what we do." I don't feel like we bring anything new in the postseason either. We just kinda roll with what we do all year expecting it to work while our opponents often bring in new wrinkles.

If you think Belichick is overrated I would glady take him over Caldwell though. But, I get what you mean. While I think he is an all time great head coach it baffles me how he can't turn your D around again. Are they still ranked dead last? Sheesh. I also thought Rex outcoached him in the playoffs last year. In the SB against the Giants yes I do admit that your o line was pretty much having to wave the white flag.

As for Luck, hey I love the guy. I would take him. I am not sure it is meant to be for us though since we have strong competition. Just seems pretty tempting to me.

Yes patriots are still dead last i believe