Honest positional needs

[Pokerbrat2000]

It doesn't preclude anything. GB doesn't have to copycat other teams. Its ok to be unique sometimes. I recall in the '90s and 2000's, GB developed QBs and traded them for picks under Favre. Rinse and repeat. I think that's a great model to go back to.

I think that has been tried several times since Ron Wolf left and the only success was Aaron Rodgers, of course I don't think he was drafted for eventual trade bait.

You and I agree on your QB2 should be a more seasoned Vet than a Hundley or Kizer, but I still don't know how you expect to have a QB3 that is ready to play but needs to be developed. Again, with what you want, a sheer development guy would be a QB4. You also need to have a decent QB coach, something I think the Packers have lacked for awhile now.

 

[McKnowledge]

I think that has been tried several times since Ron Wolf left and the only success was Aaron Rodgers, of course I don't think he was drafted for eventual trade bait.

You and I agree on your QB2 should be a more seasoned Vet than a Hundley or Kizer, but I still don't know how you expect to have a QB3 that is ready to play but needs to be developed. Again, with what you want, a sheer development guy would be a QB4. You also need to have a decent QB coach, something I think the Packers have lacked for awhile now.

Green Bay is Quaterback U. Detmer, Brunell, Brooks, Hasselback, the list goes on and on. Those guys went on to have moderate to great success as starting QBs. Others such as Pederson, went on to have success in coaching. Green Bay has always had quality offensive staffs. The problem lies with playcalling, specifically McCarthy's reluctance to adjust to the modern game. His philosophy was outdated and opposing defenses keyed in on his inability to put players in successful positions to win their match-ups. He didn't emphasize the run game, and remained loyal to players past their primes.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Green Bay is Quaterback U. Detmer, Brunell, Brooks, Hasselback, the list goes on and on. Those guys went on to have moderate to great success as starting QBs. Others such as Pederson, went on to have success in coaching. Green Bay has always had quality offensive staffs. The problem lies with playcalling, specifically McCarthy's reluctance to adjust to the modern game. His philosophy was outdated and opposing defenses keyed in on his inability to put players in successful positions to win their match-ups. He didn't emphasize the run game, and remained loyal to players past their primes.

The operative word is "was" a QB U.

That ship sailed a long time ago.

Steve Mariucci, Andy Reid and a few other QB coaches did well in Green Bay.

Maybe that was the problem, McCarthy and TT assumed they could develop just about anyone and also have them as QB2?

I'm fine with developing QB's, but as your #3, sitting on the PS. If #1 and #2 go down, you start looking for a vet out of work, because whoever your #3 is, chances are even if he is partly ready, he isn't leading the Packers to many wins.

 

[McKnowledge]

The operative word is "was" a QB U.

That ship sailed a long time ago.

Steve Mariucci, Andy Reid and a few other QB coaches did well in Green Bay.

Maybe that was the problem, McCarthy and TT assumed they could develop just about anyone and also have them as QB2?

I'm fine with developing QB's, but as your #3, sitting on the PS. If #1 and #2 go down, you start looking for a vet out of work, because whoever your #3 is, chances are even if he is partly ready, he isn't leading the Packers to many wins.

I never said a QB3 should be a solid starter. He should have qualities of a starter. A prime example of a great QB3 is Taysom Hill (formerly of GB) for the Saints. If he doesn't have a strong arm, he should be accurate for example. If he lacks pocket presence, he possess improvisational skills. Backup QBs must bring something to the game in the event the starter goes down. The chains need to keep moving and his sole goal is to not allow the offense to get stagnant. I thought Kizer would progress and he hasn't. GB should target veteran QBs as backups and worry about developing young QBs for the practice squad.

Already said this hours ago.

 

[Poppa San]

You also need to have a decent QB coach, something I think the Packers have lacked for awhile now.

GB had a really good QB coach. Unfortunately he was so busy being OC that not only did he neglect the QB coach role, he eventually failed in the HC spot too.

 

[Dantés]

They can cut Graham this off-season as a Post June 1st cut and have the same amount of dead money...$3.6 mil. I said in previous and posts and no more. Cut Jimmy Graham and seek better options. Why wait an entire year and have the same cap hold?

You are mistaken, Allison is a not a speedy WR, which is why he should play slot. No where as good as Larry Fitzgerald, Allison has great hands, route running, and YAC savvy perfectly suited for the slot. I said the same for Jordy Nelson prior to his exit and Oakland ended up deploying him in that role. Slot WR do not have to be shifty, shorter stocky guys. If the QB position has shown us, let's not pigeonhole players based on physical traits.

Hell. Why 11? 12? Dude. Now who's throwing a tantrum.

Miami doesn't have a winning tradition and a HOF QB

The post June 1st cut just allows you to spread the other half of the cap hit into next season... it doesn't make it disappear. If they cut him, they incur 7M in dead cap space, no matter how they slice it.

I am not mistaken. Evidently, his combine forty was not an accurate reflection of his play speed. The Packers need a YAC weapon in the slot who makes plays with the ball in his hand-- that's not Allison.

The bold makes absolutely no sense. You are the one who said they need 6 defensive linemen in the first place. Now you're making light of that? Are you trying to walk back what you said in the first place?

Miami doesn't have a winning tradition largely because they have often tried to do what you described in your original post-- buy an NFL roster.

 

[Dantés]

Already said this hours ago.

A QB3, whether on the 53 or on the practice squad, is developmental by definition. If all you mean is that you want a QB3 with some NFL caliber traits, then Kizer AND Boyle both fit your bill. I don't believe anyone quibbled with your argument that they should find a QB2 (someone more reliable). But it's silly to act as though Kizer and Boyle aren't even worth some development as 3rd quarterbacks. It isn't as though Kizer came into good situations where we could actually judge his progress.

 

[McKnowledge]

The post June 1st cut just allows you to spread the other half of the cap hit into next season... it doesn't make it disappear. If they cut him, they incur 7M in dead cap space, no matter how they slice it.

Never said the cap hit disappears. IMO, it would be wise to get rid of Graham now rather than later and move foward with younger talent.

I am not mistaken. Evidently, his combine forty was not an accurate reflection of his play speed. The Packers need a YAC weapon in the slot who makes plays with the ball in his hand-- that's not Allison.

You cannot say Geronimo Allison is incapable of playing in the slot. If another YAC weapon emerges either internally or through free agency then all the better.

The bold makes absolutely no sense. You are the one who said they need 6 defensive linemen in the first place. Now you're making light of that? Are you trying to walk back what you said in the first place?

So you've never been bold? Does italics signify timidity? Walk back what? Need or suggest...they're just my opinions. R-E-L-A-X...

Miami doesn't have a winning tradition largely because they have often tried to do what you described in your original post-- buy an NFL roster.

They've over-utilized free agents without having a franchise QB in place. It worked when they had Dan Marino. Tannehill ain't it.

 

[McKnowledge]

A QB3, whether on the 53 or on the practice squad, is developmental by definition. If all you mean is that you want a QB3 with some NFL caliber traits, then Kizer AND Boyle both fit your bill. I don't believe anyone quibbled with your argument that they should find a QB2 (someone more reliable). But it's silly to act as though Kizer and Boyle aren't even worth some development as 3rd quarterbacks. It isn't as though Kizer came into good situations where we could actually judge his progress.

Kizer started 16 games last year in Cleveland. He came to QB to be a QB2. As QB2, you should be ready to go at a moment's notice. That's the sole purpose of being a QB2. I would like a QB3 with NFL QB starting caliber traits. Kizer may need to go the practice squad route.

 

[Dantés]

I am definitely convinced that the Packers need plenty of help on the OL, but this statistic is telling:

Per Ben Fennell of The Athletic, 45 of Rodgers' 53 sacks came after he had held the ball for over 2.5 seconds.

To put that in perspective, here are some time to throw averages of notable QB's this season:

• Roethlisberger: 2.55
• Brees: 2.59
• Brady: 2.61
• Rivers: 2.62
• Luck: 2.63
• Stafford: 2.63
• Rodgers: 2.95

The only QB's with a longer time to throw than Rodgers were the highly mobile Deshaun Watson, Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, and Josh Allen. Certainly 2.5 seconds isn't a super long time, but it's plenty for a QB to get the ball out. Rodgers and/or the design of the offense wouldn't allow for that.

A huge part of the sack problem is on Rodgers. He's holding the ball like he's the same escapable guy he used to be, and he just wasn't. How much of that was age and how much was his knee injury is hard to say, but he's going to need to change his game at some point to remain effective.

 

[Dantés]

You cannot say Geronimo Allison is incapable of playing in the slot. If another YAC weapon emerges either internally or through free agency then all the better.

So you've never been bold? Does italics signify timidity? Walk back what? Need or suggest...they're just my opinions. R-E-L-A-X...

They've over-utilized free agents without having a franchise QB in place. It worked when they had Dan Marino. Tannehill ain't it.

I never did... I actually specifically said that he could play in the slot, but he's best on the outside.

You do understand that I meant bold text, yes?

It actually famously didn't work when they had Dan Marino. For my money, he's the best QB who has ever played the game and they never won a championship in 17 tries.

 

[Dantés]

Kizer started 16 games last year in Cleveland. He came to QB to be a QB2. As QB2, you should be ready to go at a moment's notice. That's the sole purpose of being a QB2. I would like a QB3 with NFL QB starting caliber traits. Kizer may need to go the practice squad route.

If you don't think Kizer or Boyle should be the QB2, that's totally reasonable. But you're changing the subject. You said the Packers need both a 2 and a 3 in that mile long list you made. Which is why my original comment was that Kizer or Boyle could easily merit a spot as a the 3rd QB in development. I never challenged the idea of wanting a more reliable immediate backup.

 

[McKnowledge]

You and I agree on your QB2 should be a more seasoned Vet than a Hundley or Kizer, but I still don't know how you expect to have a QB3 that is ready to play but needs to be developed.

Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and countless other QBs have been ready to start at QB, yet developed other facets of their game with more snaps and growing more accustomed to the game. Regardless of their status as QB2 or QB3, they played well and when called upon and took advantage of their opportunities when they were presented. Cannot start and affect the game in a positive manner without possessing starter qualities.

 

[McKnowledge]

I never did... I actually specifically said that he could play in the slot, but he's best on the outside.

You do understand that I meant bold text, yes?

It actually famously didn't work when they had Dan Marino. For my money, he's the best QB who has ever played the game and they never won a championship in 17 tries.

IMO. I think he should play the slot. IMO. I think we need a faster player on the outside. It actually worked for Marino. He made a Super Bowl and a few conference championships with some free agent acquisitions. In 1983, one could argue, his draft to the Dolphins was the best acquisition in Dolphin history.

 

[Dantés]

IMO. I think he should play the slot. IMO. I think we need a faster player on the outside. It actually worked for Marino. He made a Super Bowl and a few conference championships with some free agent acquisitions. In 1983, one could argue, his draft to the Dolphins was the best acquisition in Dolphin history.

He faster than you think. But if you want someone with better timed speed on the outside, might I suggest Marques Valdez-Scantling or Equanimeous St. Brown?

 

[McKnowledge]

He faster than you think. But if you want someone with better timed speed on the outside, might I suggest Marques Valdez-Scantling or Equanimeous St. Brown?

It could work if they put in the work and dedication into their mind and body. Also, they have to get into a new playbook and hopefully hound Aaron Rodgers for throwing sessions during the off season. These two WRs, specifically have the talent. Do they possess the desire?

 

[Dantés]

It could work if they put in the work and dedication into their mind and body. Also, they have to get into a new playbook and hopefully hound Aaron Rodgers for throwing sessions during the off season. These two WRs, specifically have the talent. Do they possess the desire?

By all accounts you read, MVS certainly does. I haven't heard anything to the contrary for either.

They're talented, they came in somewhat raw, they played far more than was planned with injuries ahead of them, and they produced reasonably in an offense that was inherently dysfunctional all year.

I can see diversifying the skillsets in the WR corps with the addition of a YAC skilled weapon either in FA or the draft, but they have a lot of good options for the outside in-house as it stands now.

 

[OldSchool101]

The Packers should add another running back to the roster but Jones and Williams form a decent one-two punch.

I agree they are decent 1-2 punch. But they are not Lacey and Starks in their prime either. Captain, nothing takes the place of getting punched by Mike Tyson in the nose.
Aaron Jones is extremely effective as a #2 coming in as the relief man (the finishing left handed hook) late in drives and as the D wears down.
I like Jamaal sprinkled in, but he’s more of a reliable or top #3 workhorse nothing flashy back. He’s good enough to be that #2 when someone’s out with injury but he’s doesn’t demand any respect from the D.

We would really benefit from another RB that is a receiving threat out of the backfield IMO.
I understand that It may not be our priority with the all the holes we need to fill. But IMO if you combined another formidable short range weapon for Rodgers along with dedicating resources to the O Line we would be better by default. It’s time to give Aaron some weapons it’s long overdue.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Man I’m getting an Erie feeling that they go offensive linemen at 12. If Jonah Williams is there I wouldn’t be shocked to see them pass up on an edge rusher in order to revamp this line so that they can protect the Franchise QB. We are a mess at both guards and at right tackle with Bulaga not being able to stay healthy. If they take Williams and keep Bulaga? I’m almost willing to guarantee they move Bulaga inside to guard and put the rookie out on the edge.

I can't see taking any O Lineman in this draft until the late 1st round pick. Nobody is worth a shot at 12 with the needs we have at DL, Edge, WR, Safety, TE and ILB

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Actually got a chance to watch a full Saints game today, damn they are pretty good....crap for our #1 pick from them, but oh well. Taysom Hill continues to impress me. I think his run on the punt fake was a big turning point in that game. Even looked like the Eagles were ready for it and yet he found a way to get the yardage and more. Who Fakes a punt on 4th and 1 from their own 30 in the 2nd Quarter? Then later, he throws a perfect deep ball for an apparent TD, a penalty spoiled that. Love the guy and it appears Sean Payton does too.

 

[OldSchool101]

I can't see taking any O Lineman in this draft until the late 1st round pick. Nobody is worth a shot at 12 with the needs we have at DL, Edge, WR, Safety, TE and ILB

I think I’d go after 2-OL.
I agree. I think pick #32 at the earliest. My personal philosophy would be hit 2 picks between
#44,#111 range. But if an ideal candidate slips late into the 1st round I could see I’d use #32 overall (presumed).
I can also see using a 3rd OL pick for depth in draft rounds 5 thru 6

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

By all accounts you read, MVS certainly does. I haven't heard anything to the contrary for either.

They're talented, they came in somewhat raw, they played far more than was planned with injuries ahead of them, and they produced reasonably in an offense that was inherently dysfunctional all year.

I can see diversifying the skillsets in the WR corps with the addition of a YAC skilled weapon either in FA or the draft, but they have a lot of good options for the outside in-house as it stands now.

We need to get Paris Campbell here and then we can get back to the 5 Wide empty set formation that offenses like New Orleans and LA prove still works.

Get back to that and outputs of 40 plus points a game can happen again.

Hopefully this time also someone wises up and cuts Bulaga and Taylor off of the OL and gets 2 real big guards plus a RT and that way all blitzes are stopped.

 

[Poppa San]

Hopefully this time also someone wises up and cuts Bulaga and Taylor off of the OL and gets 2 real big guards plus a RT and that way all blitzes are stopped.

We all know that starting level offensive linemen are growing on trees in the league and it would be our secret because nobody else is looking for them.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hopefully this time also someone wises up and cuts Bulaga and Taylor off of the OL and gets 2 real big guards plus a RT and that way all blitzes are stopped.

If you expect the offensive line to contain every single blitz you will be extremely disappointed next season once again.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Curious to know what peoples thoughts on Lane Taylor are. I didn't pay much attention to him this season, but I am hearing undertones of people thinking he needs to be replaced? Obviously the RG and possibly RT are 2 positions to focus on this off season, but should LG be another one?

I guess I was under the impression that Taylor wasn't playing as well as he has in the past, but that could be said for quite a few Packer players in 2018.

Is he our starter in 2019 or does he need to be replaced?