HaHa on accountability

[gbgary]

more than carefully crafted interview answers the proof will be in the pudding when they take the field. points given up. the eye test. i'll believe it when i see it.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I feel like it was scheme. Many apparently believe Burnett was better suited to move around and play up in the mix... I think he was a very good safety in coverage. Good center fielder, because he can tackle...not the biggest safety. Not extraordinarily strong. Slick. Smart. Good tackler. Fs.

Clinton dix was seemingly in on every tackle in 16. His rookie year he was in on most tackles (bounced off a few too many maybe)... but he was in the mix, back when his coverage skills were the weakness. And his attack skills were all-pro?

Magically he is playing 20 yds deep, and he sucks? I don't think so.... scheme.

Don't get me wrong. I liked the idea of Burnett doing his best woodson impersonation. And haha back deep, eye on the whole field. Picking off balls. But most important (or at least just as important),for a deep safety .is to cement the fear into the wrs... time the crushing hit so they... you know... aren't "defenseless"... but right after that! Make them wake up in cold sweats. Hear footsteps all times of the day and night. Make wrs fear Greenbay..... I was thinking haha could do it. But for what ever reason. He didn't shine...

Now Burnett is gone. Haha can move back up now. I hope.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

HaHa was asked yesterday about frustration and starting a lot of plays 20 yds off the line of scrimmage last year, and I thought his answer was pretty indicative as to what he thought about Dom's scheme...

"Last year we had to do what was best for the team, I wasn't involved in alot. Like I said, last year was last year."

Saying Last year we had to do what was best for the team tells me Dom was completely unwilling to change or adjust to anything. His scheme is what it was, and no matter what we were going to bang our heads against the wall every Sunday trotting it out there.

This answer (along with others he had) to me sounds like a guy who couldn't be happier that Dom is gone. We don't know if he (or anyone else for that matter) was voicing an opinion or not but he did what he was told and that was the end of it. He sounds like a guy who's ready for the new system and for accountability among his teammates.

I think he sounds like a guy who got stuck on a team with no real talent at corner and ended up doing a lot of things to cover for that.

 

[PackerDNA]

Like Captain Wimm, I also wasn't too impressed with his 'all-pro' year. A guy who was as invisible as he was last season, and ended the season quitting at Detroit, should look to hold himself accountable.

 

[sschind]

Like Captain Wimm, I also wasn't too impressed with his 'all-pro' year. A guy who was as invisible as he was last season, and ended the season quitting at Detroit, should look to hold himself accountable.

Too much emphasis is placed on BIG plays. Mediocre defensive backs will always be seen as better if they can snag a bunch of passes. Never mind if they give up twice as many TDs. Their name appears next to the interception but in most cases stats don't show who was beaten for the 50 yard TD. I'll take a guy who is in position an makes more plays such as passes defensed more often than a player who makes a lot of interceptions but also get beat more often than most. IMO the best defensive backs are not necessarily the ones who get the most interceptions they are the ones who make the QBs not want to throw in their direction.

Its the same way with D linemen. Get a lot of sacks and you will be a stud even if you can't stop the run or get pressure otherwise. Take 2 linemen 1 has 12 sacks and 2 tackles for losses and the other has 24 tackles for losses and 2 sacks and the guy with 12 sacks will be thought of as the better lineman by most people.

Same with drops for a WR. Lead the league in drops and everyone knows it even if it amounts to 1 every other game and the next guy had only 1 less.

Big plays or BIG mistakes will overshadow consistently good play every time.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I think the big elephant in the room right now in the way the DBs perform this year is Joe Whitt, and I think this year he's gotta be held accountable because he's out of excuses regardless of the personnel he has. As of right now he's the one guy of the Capers era that's still bringing the way things were done into Pettine's scheme. I'm putting bigger and better expectations on this unit and if they aren't met, I'd say Whitt's gotta go out the door first.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe Pettine wanted Whitt retained, but I would have been fine seeing him out the door with Capers. Give him credit for taking Shields from an unknown to a Pro Bowler, but beyond that, I am so unimpressed with him.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Maybe Pettine wanted Whitt retained, but I would have been fine seeing him out the door with Capers. Give him credit for taking Shields from an unknown to a Pro Bowler, but beyond that, I am so unimpressed with him.

Seems like in my experience the number one reason coaches get retained is to save money, even if Pettine was open or even happy to work with Whitt. And of course he could easily change his mind on that one as could MM and Gute if these DBs don't pick it up.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Seems like in my experience the number one reason coaches get retained is to save money, even if Pettine was open or even happy to work with Whitt. And of course he could easily change his mind on that one as could MM and Gute if these DBs don't pick it up.

If "saving money" is what the Packers think they are doing by keeping Whitt over a more expensive hiring, than they should look at all of the draft capital and its value, that they may have wasted in the process, not to even mention the effect that could be having on the W's and L's each season. Given that, I would be shocked if they are just trying to save themselves a million or 2 on hiring a better guy.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

It's possible they were thinking also that a total defensive staff overhaul along with Pettine's hiring would be too much of a disruption. Plus the argument has been that all the draft capital and talent wasted was Capers doing and not Whitt's, or at least that's what some here have said. I think this year though wellw get a good look at what Whitt can really do whether good or bad.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's possible they were thinking also that a total defensive staff overhaul along with Pettine's hiring would be too much of a disruption. Plus the argument has been that all the draft capital and talent wasted was Capers doing and not Whitt's, or at least that's what some here have said. I think this year though wellw get a good look at what Whitt can really do whether good or bad.

Whitt's track record coaching cornerbacks with the Packers definitely justifies questioning the quality of his work. With him being named passing game coordinator for this season the defense has to significantly improve in that area for him to be retained further.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think he sounds like a guy who got stuck on a team with no real talent at corner and ended up doing a lot of things to cover for that.

I still think he’s a just a guy that is lacking speed to the sidelines, doesn’t have great football instinctiveness and ball skills, doesn’t have great coverage skills, and is an inconsistent tackler.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I still think he’s a just a guy that is lacking speed to the sidelines, doesn’t have great football instinctiveness and ball skills, doesn’t have great coverage skills, and is an inconsistent tackler.

While Clinton-Dix shouldn't have been selected as a second-team All-Pro in 2016 he performed at a pretty high level during that season.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I still think he’s a just a guy that is lacking speed to the sidelines, doesn’t have great football instinctiveness and ball skills, doesn’t have great coverage skills, and is an inconsistent tackler.

He's also just a third year player who has played in a secondary featuring some of the worst corners in football.

 

[PikeBadger]

He's also just a third year player who has played in a secondary featuring some of the worst corners in football.

I fear that the chinks in his game are not correctable by coaching. I hope I’m wrong. Would love to see Charles Woodson work with him for a season. He made a noticeable difference with Nick Collins. Perhaps Woodson could teach him enough tricks to help offset his weaknesses. I’ve always felt that paying Woodson a million dollars a season to work closely with 2 DB’s would be a very worthwhile investment.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Whitt's track record coaching cornerbacks with the Packers definitely justifies questioning the quality of his work. With him being named passing game coordinator for this season the defense has to significantly improve in that area for him to be retained further.

I have never heard of this title before in our organization. Does that mean he and Pettine are splitting play calling duties or that we in essence got 2 defensive coordinators doing their thing? I'm not making assumptions, just never heard of us having anything other than a DBs coach who works with that unit in particular but still has to fall in line with the DC's scheme the way it's drawn up.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I have never heard of this title before in our organization. Does that mean he and Pettine are splitting play calling duties or that we in essence got 2 defensive coordinators doing their thing? I'm not making assumptions, just never heard of us having anything other than a DBs coach who works with that unit in particular but still has to fall in line with the DC's scheme the way it's drawn up.

Think it was just a way for MM to keep a good defensive coach who deserved a promotion. Instead of just corners he can now work with corners, safeties, and maybe linebackers who have coverage responsibilities. Pettine is still the DC, this was just a title change to give a deserving coach a promotion (since there's not really an "official" position between position group and defensive/offensive coordinator).

 

[Mike McCarthy]

He's also just a third year player who has played in a secondary featuring some of the worst corners in football.

As unimpressed as I have been with dix, you do indeed bring up a very valid point.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I have never heard of this title before in our organization. Does that mean he and Pettine are splitting play calling duties or that we in essence got 2 defensive coordinators doing their thing? I'm not making assumptions, just never heard of us having anything other than a DBs coach who works with that unit in particular but still has to fall in line with the DC's scheme the way it's drawn up.

The Packers actually implemented the titles of pass game coordinator and run game coordinator on both sides of the ball this offseason. In addition to Whitt the team named Patrick Graham defensive run game coordinator, Jim Hostler offensive pass game coordinator and James Campen offensive run game coordinator.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Well in that case, Whitt had better know his job is going to be under even more fire with this title.

I'm going to bet that he and Ron Zook will be the first to get fired this offseason.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well in that case, Whitt had better know his job is going to be under even more fire with this title.

I'm going to bet that he and Ron Zook will be the first to get fired this offseason.

So are we already starting a "Fire Whitt" and a "Fire Zook" thread?

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

So are we already starting a "Fire Whitt" and a "Fire Zook" thread?

No, well at least not quite yet for Whitt, but I am saying he should know that with his promotion will come greater accountability for how the secondary plays. I'll credit him if they play well, but if they don't his rope will be cut very short.

I won't be starting a fire Zook thread, but I do think he's a bad special teams coach.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No, well at least not quite yet for Whitt, but I am saying he should know that with his promotion will come greater accountability for how the secondary plays. I'll credit him if they play well, but if they don't his rope will be cut very short.

I won't be starting a fire Zook thread, but I do think he's a bad special teams coach.

Yup. I would have been fine with seeing Whitt leave with Capers. But I will be fine with him staying if it turns out that the poor play of high draft capital was Capers and/or TT's fault and not Whitt's. But you are right, with those 2 people out of the equation, no more excuses, get it done! Possibly what saved Whitt was seeing a guy like Casey Hayward go elsewhere and shine in a new system. MM might have viewed that as "Whitt taught him everything he knew, but he was stunted trying to perform in Capers defense."

Zook is just "meh" as a special teams guy. I think he does a relatively decent job with the units, but rarely do you see anything that unique or special from him. Maybe that is on MM in not letting him do anything out of the ordinary?