Getting over the hump

[Deleted member 6794]

As for Capers, maybe the injuries this year saved him. Several posters believe that the defensive woes were solely because of injuries. Maybe McCarthy feels that way too, or is at least willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

While the Packers suffered a significant amount of injuries at cornerback the rest of the defense was extremely healthy. As I've mentioned repeatedly using injuries as an excuse is weak, especially as Thompson had sufficient time to make a move to improve the talent level at CB.

 

[PikeBadger]

That's not what I took away from McCarthy's Crosby comment regarding Capers. Paraphrasing McCarthy, he stated that there have been times in his life that he made certain decisions that had seemed to be correct initially but that later he regretted them. He gave me the impression that decisions of this magnitude are best made when exercising haste slowly.

IMHO this was a very interesting podcast that was loaded with valuable nuggets giving insight into McCarthy's personality and what shaped him as a coach. He's smart, thoughtful and witty. The exchanges between he and Mark Tauscher were also very insightful and enjoyable. Tauscher is a pretty good interviewer and really very bright himself. That's something about Tauscher that I had not been exposed to before listening to this program. I'll listen again in the future.

One of my take aways is that it seems to indeed be McCarthy's decision to hire/fire.

 

[sschind]

One of my take aways is that it seems to indeed be McCarthy's decision to hire/fire.

The head coach usually does have hire/fire control of the rest of the coaching staff. I think if a GM is going to make that decision over a HCs objections it would have to be an extreme situation. Even in those instances where coordinators are fired and HCs kept on I think it is at least a mutual decision. I'm sure there are situations where the GM says "either you fire this assistant or you're both out the door" but I doubt it is very common.

 

[OldSchool101]

Funny you should ask. McCarthy said on Thursday that he hasn't fired DC because of....Mason Crosby .
http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-...arthy-fire-dom-capers-the-answer-mason-crosby

Interesting article. I thought it intriguing that MM would use this employment algorithm concerning Crosby (who has scored the most points in Packers history) and apply it to Dom (to ascertain if he can stop giving up the most points in Packers history)

 

[rmontro]

While the Packers suffered a significant amount of injuries at cornerback the rest of the defense was extremely healthy. As I've mentioned repeatedly using injuries as an excuse is weak, especially as Thompson had sufficient time to make a move to improve the talent level at CB.

I agree, of course. But my point was that perhaps McCarthy is willing to give Capers another chance because Thompson didn't give him anything to work with - after the CB injuries hit.

I suppose Thompson kept thinking his boys would come around, or get healthier. Or who knows what he was thinking?

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I agree, of course. But my point was that perhaps McCarthy is willing to give Capers another chance because Thompson didn't give him anything to work with - after the CB injuries hit.

I suppose Thompson kept thinking his boys would come around, or get healthier. Or who knows what he was thinking?

Forget the CBs. The dline was not able to do their job after like week 5. No depth......

 

[Mavster]

There isn't a DC in the league that was hired before 2012 - besides Don Capers of course, who's been in GB since 2009.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree, of course. But my point was that perhaps McCarthy is willing to give Capers another chance because Thompson didn't give him anything to work with - after the CB injuries hit.

I've mentioned repeatedly that I believe the reason McCarthy has held on to Capers is because of a perceived lack of talent on that side of the ball.

Forget the CBs. The dline was not able to do their job after like week 5. No depth......

There's absolutely no doubt the defense mainly struggled because of a lack of talent at cornerback. The defensive line performed at a decent level.

 

[Mike McCarthy]

Ron Capers is good enough, he's smart enough and dog gone it people like him.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I've mentioned repeatedly that I believe the reason McCarthy has held on to Capers is because of a perceived lack of talent on that side of the ball.



There's absolutely no doubt the defense mainly struggled because of a lack of talent at cornerback. The defensive line performed at a decent level.

Yea. And the packers led the league in sacks early on when the dline was fresh and healthy. As soon as the dline wore down, and one of the two effective dlineman got hurt (Guion)... Then the ilbs both got injured, the defense couldn't get to the qb. The CBs buckled under the pressure, and the whole **** show came crashing to the ground...

But early on when the dline was able to do their part, the lbs were getting to the qb...

No dline depth was problem #1 imo

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yea. And the packers led the league in sacks early on when the dline was fresh and healthy. As soon as the dline wore down, and one of the two effective dlineman got hurt (Guion)... Then the ilbs both got injured, the defense couldn't get to the qb. The CBs buckled under the pressure, and the whole **** show came crashing to the ground...

But early on when the dline was able to do their part, the lbs were getting to the qb...

No dline depth was problem #1 imo

First of all the Packers didn't lead the league in sacks at any point during last season nor did the team suffer any significant injuries on the defensive line.

I understand that you believe having an elite DL is the only way to field a successful defense but everyone who watched the Packers play last season is well aware of the fact that the unit struggled mightily because the cornerbacks couldn't cover opposing receivers for two seconds.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

First of all the Packers didn't lead the league in sacks at any point during last season nor did the team suffer any significant injuries on the defensive line.

I understand that you believe having an elite DL is the only way to field a successful defense but everyone who watched the Packers play last season is well aware of the fact that the unit struggled mightily because the cornerbacks couldn't cover opposing receivers for two seconds.

Tied, one back. Whatever. We usually are at the bottom of the sack list. Last year we had something like 17 sacks through 3 or 4 weeks from our lbs....

You should have mentioned that when you pointed out we didn't lead the league....

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Tied, one back. Whatever. We usually are at the bottom of the sack list. Last year we had something like 17 sacks through 3 or 4 weeks from our lbs....

You should have mentioned that when you pointed out we didn't lead the league....

You're right, the Packers were among the league leaders in sacks early in the season but I would prefer the defense to put constant pressure on opposing quarterbacks as the total amount of sacks is a misleading number.

 

[OldSchool101]

This pass Defense should improve, but I'll be surprised if they get in the top 50% of the league ("the hump")even after the addition of 4 solid draft defenders (partly because I think we've regressed at OLB)
IF we get any sort of semblance of a running threat and we don't drop markedly in pass protection for #12, this year's Offense has a significant chance of carrying a top 15-20 or so GB Pass Defense deep into the playoffs.
My best hypothesis is.. I'm not sure we'll make that Defensive leap in 2017 but with another year for some of these young guys to mature and a bountiful # of draft picks next year (combined with TTs recent change of heart in using FA more liberally) we should conceivably trend into the top 50% tile towards the end of 2018

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My best hypothesis is.. I'm not sure we'll make that Defensive leap in 2017 but with another year for some of these young guys to mature and a bountiful # of draft picks next year (combined with TTs recent change of heart in using FA more liberally) we should conceivably trend into the top 50% tile towards the end of 2018

Unfortunately the Packers have hoped to get back into the top 10 scoring defenses since winning the Super Bowl six years ago and I'm not sure the team is headed in the right direction on that side of the ball anytime soon. As you've rightfully pointed out the outside linebacker position, which is essential to have success in a 3-4, regressed this offseason and there's at least some concern about Thompson having significantly improved the talent at cornerback. Not exactly a recipe for success.

 

[Poppa San]

IF we get any sort of semblance of a running threat and we don't drop markedly in pass protection for #12, this year's Offense has a significant chance of carrying a top 15-20 or so GB Pass Defense deep into the playoffs.

LAST seasons offense carried the defense to one game short of the super bowl. How deep is deep?

 

[El Guapo]

This is like listening to the "Less Filling" vs "Tastes Great" ads. The cornerbacks and Dline were responsible for the bad defense. The ILBs didn't help either.

Injuries are a legitimate excuse but they don't preclude a team from being successful, they usually severely hamper a team's ability to succeed. TT rarely makes in-season moves, I surmise, because he sees them as knee-jerk reactions to injury situations. We all know that he values the cap and his own players, so he probably expects another 2010 season. I'm not sure that I fully agree with him, but if he's kicking the tires and not seeing much help out there for a reasonable price, I can get behind not doing anything. Most of the time though he should be able to find someone, especially when a position like CB is decimated.

 

[rmontro]

LAST seasons offense carried the defense to one game short of the super bowl. How deep is deep?

The NFCCG is definitely deep. It's just that the impression left was that the team had gotten about as far as it could go, and with its limitations, it wasn't going to get any further. YMMV.

I also think they were very fortunate to win that Dallas game, it looked like a Seattle sized collapse in progress near the end there. They were saved by Prescott's spike, Cook's great catch, and Crosby's foot. Anyway, that's the way it goes sometimes, and this time it was in our favor. But unless the defense can be improved, they'll be lucky to get that far again, let alone win the Super Bowl.

 

[sschind]

This is like listening to the "Less Filling" vs "Tastes Great" ads. The cornerbacks and Dline were responsible for the bad defense. The ILBs didn't help either.

Injuries are a legitimate excuse but they don't preclude a team from being successful, they usually severely hamper a team's ability to succeed. TT rarely makes in-season moves, I surmise, because he sees them as knee-jerk reactions to injury situations. We all know that he values the cap and his own players, so he probably expects another 2010 season. I'm not sure that I fully agree with him, but if he's kicking the tires and not seeing much help out there for a reasonable price, I can get behind not doing anything. Most of the time though he should be able to find someone, especially when a position like CB is decimated.

Not really because those "Less Filling" vs "Tastes Great" ads were enjoyable

 

[Sky King]

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[wist43]

I don't think we can get over the hump as long as Capers is our DC.

He doesn't put his players in positions to succeed - more the opposite actually.

Capers has overseen some of the worst defenses in the league during his tenure - even one of the worst in league history.

I wanted him fired years ago... but he'll be there until he decides to retire. His presence alone gives me no hope for a championship.

We'll go 10-6 again and get embarrassed in the playoffs - again.

 

[rmontro]

I wanted him fired years ago... but he'll be there until he decides to retire. His presence alone gives me no hope for a championship.

I've been hopeful every year for another Super Bowl since 2010. But as things stand, until I see some evidence the defense has been significantly improved or changed, I no longer have expectations for an NFL championship.

 

[pizzle]

As of late May-no I do not think we have what it takes to get over the hump. Offensively, I think we're loaded. This offense could really be special-and be as explosive AND balanced as we've ever seen it. The problem, as many have stated, will be with the defense. Specifically the linebacker core. I think that is our weak link. We're going to be caught either playing ILBs that will be isolated and attacked by teams in heavy (run) personnel packages via the pass, or get gashed up the gut late in games when we are playing one or both of our safeties inside as moneybackers by teams using 10 or 11 personnel packages with a strong inside runner in the backfield. If Clay and Nick are not both stellar and 16 game regular season healthy, we're screwed when it comes to pass rush. The LBs will be our downfall as the team is set up right now.

The only way this can change, and we have enough to get over the top, is if somehow, someway Trader Ted grabs a couple veteran OLBs off the street to give us depth. We can live with our ILBs being the weak link and win a SB still. We can't go into the season with the OLB unit as slated right now and expect to come out of the NFC. So if between now and late August we grab another guy who can set the edge in the run game effectively and add a pass rush specialist on the outside, we can get over the hump. Without two quality EDGE players added from outside the roster, or some combo of Jayrone Elliot/Kyler Fackrell/Reggie Gilbert/Johnathan Calvin breaking out in a MAJOR way, we are sadly gonna have a nice rollercoaster ride ending before the big dance again.

 

[rmontro]

Here's what ticks me off. Maybe it's misguided, I don't know, but here it is:

We have Aaron Rodgers. If you have Michael Jordan, you're going to take advantage of it. Are you going to lose in the playoffs every year to the Celtics and the Pistons? Or are you going to put Scottie Pippin and Dennis Rodman around him? Are you going to put a championship team around him and go after history?

I know the NFL has the salary cap and to an extent we're talking apples and oranges here. But I question whether Ted is pulling out all the stops given the opportunity we have here, and it irritates me.