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Bundesbiers

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I just read Hector has a relegation clause in his contract that would let him out if they went down. BVB and Bayern are both reportedly interested. But I'm sure it will be a moot point as they won't be relegated, right Bundesbiers? :D


Quite a few players have the no-rel clause. I'd have to imagine Timor Horn and Marcel Risse are also like that. Hoping we won't have to worry about it.
 

mhnessie

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We are the odds on favorite to go down with ya.
You know what? Im fine with us going down. We have worked on this for so many years, more than deserved :rolleyes:. But its going to be our chance to rebuild. And I‘m keen on visiting new grounds, Union for example is on my list for an away trip.
And Arminia Bielefeld and Bochum is on my list too. Looking forward to it. We will strike back. And if we both go down we both will be back for the 19/20 season.
 

mhnessie

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I watched the friendlies this week, and the font is really terrible. Goretzka's is particularly mangled looking. I can't believe it passed testing.
Yes, indeed. As you said, it's unbelieveable that it passend testing.
Btw - Tuchel is notz goingto be the next Bayern manager, now Hasenhuttel or Kovac seem to be targeted. In the end it's none of the mentioned candidates and Jupp takes over for another year ?:cautious:;)
 

Itkovian

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Yes, indeed. As you said, it's unbelieveable that it passend testing.
Btw - Tuchel is notz goingto be the next Bayern manager, now Hasenhuttel or Kovac seem to be targeted. In the end it's none of the mentioned candidates and Jupp takes over for another year ?:cautious:;)

Jupp seems pretty freaking sure that isn't going to happen lol

I'd be alright with Hasenhuttel or Kovac. I'm glad it's not Tuchel, I just had a feeling that wouldn't have gone well.
 

Croak

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So it turns out that Heynckes, Rummenigge, and Alihamidzic (?) all wanted Tuchel, but Hoeness did not. I wasn't really in favor of Tuchel, but it is disturbing to me that the most dishonest one of the bunch has the most power. :coffee:
 

Itkovian

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So it turns out that Heynckes, Rummenigge, and Alihamidzic (?) all wanted Tuchel, but Hoeness did not. I wasn't really in favor of Tuchel, but it is disturbing to me that the most dishonest one of the bunch has the most power. :coffee:

Not a tuchel fan, but also definitely not a Hoeness fan either.
 

Croak

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What ideas are floating around in Germany on how to insure a little more parity in the Bundesliga? I thought the 50 + 1 rule would help, but it's obvious something else needs to happen. I know Watzke is right that Bayern will have their down times, but right now it seems like there is too much of an advantage in Munich. Off the top of my head, what if the two teams who finish top of the league one year agree to each trade one player to the last non-relegation team in the league of that year? That probably couldn't work because teams at the top would start carrying a useless player just to drop them. I guess I'm just thinking out loud here....:coffee:
 

Itkovian

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That sounds like a terrible idea lol.

I get that Bayern's current dominance is frustrating for the rest of the league, but I think changing the league because of it is an over-reaction. Why punish a team for being successful? This will eventually pass and other teams will again surpass Bayern, and probably not long from now. I personally believe next year is ripe for another team because IMO the coaching situation at Bayern is going to be a disaster (don't forget Bayern started this season poorly before Jupp rescued them).

The NFL didn't change the format of the league because the Patriots won so many times in the last decade (or the Cowboys in the 90's). The MLB didn't change the format of the league when the Yankees were winning year after year after year.
 

Croak

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That sounds like a terrible idea lol.

I get that Bayern's current dominance is frustrating for the rest of the league, but I think changing the league because of it is an over-reaction. Why punish a team for being successful? This will eventually pass and other teams will again surpass Bayern, and probably not long from now. I personally believe next year is ripe for another team because IMO the coaching situation at Bayern is going to be a disaster (don't forget Bayern started this season poorly before Jupp rescued them).

The NFL didn't change the format of the league because the Patriots won so many times in the last decade (or the Cowboys in the 90's). The MLB didn't change the format of the league when the Yankees were winning year after year after year.

The NFL has changed a number of times to try to gain more parity. They changed salary rules, draft rules, and trade rules all to try to achieve more parity. The MLB tried some of the same things, but powerful financial groups prevented some of the changes while others passed. Bayern winning 6 times in a row, and now repeatedly ahead of time, is a little more dominant than anything we've seen in baseball or the NFL.

The uncertain coaching situation at Bayern could be a benefit to the league as well as the uncertainty of key players. But I believe Bayern is set up for repeated success far better than any other team in the league.
 

Itkovian

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The NFL has changed a number of times to try to gain more parity. They changed salary rules, draft rules, and trade rules all to try to achieve more parity. The MLB tried some of the same things, but powerful financial groups prevented some of the changes while others passed. Bayern winning 6 times in a row, and now repeatedly ahead of time, is a little more dominant than anything we've seen in baseball or the NFL.

The uncertain coaching situation at Bayern could be a benefit to the league as well as the uncertainty of key players. But I believe Bayern is set up for repeated success far better than any other team in the league.

Weak. The NFL changes have largely involved overall parity, and were not directly in response to a single team. I think claiming Bayern's 6 run is more dominant than anything else in baseball or NFL is pretty silly. The Packers themselves dominated the league in the 1960's, winning 5 titles in 7 years (pre-merger). The Yankees did almost exactly the same thing in the 1950's and in the 1990's. Steelers won 4 superbowls in 6 years in the 1970's. I don't think the simpleness of saying "6 in a row is still more" is reasonable.

Fact is that every league, in every sport, deal with dynasties. It is part of sports. The entire makeup of a sport doesn't need to be changed simply because a dynasty is currently at the top.

Take a look at the dynasties here:
http://www.nbcsports.com/greatest-dynasties-sports-history
College http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-ss-dynasties-college-1112-story.html

They haven't completely re-written the sport in those instances either.
 

Croak

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Weak. The NFL changes have largely involved overall parity, and were not directly in response to a single team. I think claiming Bayern's 6 run is more dominant than anything else in baseball or NFL is pretty silly. The Packers themselves dominated the league in the 1960's, winning 5 titles in 7 years (pre-merger). The Yankees did almost exactly the same thing in the 1950's and in the 1990's. Steelers won 4 superbowls in 6 years in the 1970's. I don't think the simpleness of saying "6 in a row is still more" is reasonable.

Fact is that every league, in every sport, deal with dynasties. It is part of sports. The entire makeup of a sport doesn't need to be changed simply because a dynasty is currently at the top.

Take a look at the dynasties here:
http://www.nbcsports.com/greatest-dynasties-sports-history
College http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-ss-dynasties-college-1112-story.html

They haven't completely re-written the sport in those instances either.

In the early 60's Pete Rozelle got the league and particularly the all powerful New York Giants to agree to revenue sharing so that there would be parity. Vince Lombardi chafed against the addition of new teams to the draft pool, particularly those in the AFL (because he didn't really want parity). The inclusion of the AFL and the subsequent drafts insured more parity for Rozelle. Then, years later, the salary cap insured parity. The NFL has definitely changed drastically to insure parity. It is partially why the NFL is the most popular sport in the U.S. right now.

Major league baseball has seen ebbs and flows in parity. They use a wide talent pool built from a specifically crafted farm system that helps with parity. They also instituted revenue sharing, but wealthy owners found ways to get around it and MLB didn't require the same accountability as the NFL. So they are seen by some to have been less successful guaranteeing parity. Others use playoff statistics from year to year to insist that Baseball actually has more parity than the NFL, but I'm not sure I agree with their conclusions.

In any event both sports have at least taken strong actions to try to insure some form of parity in the league. Like Rozelle saw, they gain a bigger brand for the sport by increasing viewership in many markets rather than just NY.

I think the Bundesliga would do well to look into how they can increase the brands of most of the teams in the Bundesliga. I just don't know how they should do it. For instance, you remember when we were in Berlin? There was Bayern memorabilia all over the place for sale. Andreas even scoffed at it. Yet did we see Hamburg stuff, or even Schalke, or Leverkusen or others? Not that I saw. Granted, we only went into the KaDeWe that one day. But in the street markets in Berlin/Brandenburg, Bayern stuff reigned supreme.
 

Croak

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OK, to be fair, I went to the "smart guys" to look for comparisons. Turns out the Spanish league has bigger problems than the Bundesliga and the Bundesliga ebbs and flows on parity. Right now it is working for Bayern, but I was wrong. Parity isn't necessarily lopsided for the Bundesliga. It has less parity now than it did 14 years ago, but not drastically less. http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2017/08/an-analysis-of-parity-levels-in-soccer/
 

Itkovian

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OK, to be fair, I went to the "smart guys" to look for comparisons. Turns out the Spanish league has bigger problems than the Bundesliga and the Bundesliga ebbs and flows on parity. Right now it is working for Bayern, but I was wrong. Parity isn't necessarily lopsided for the Bundesliga. It has less parity now than it did 14 years ago, but not drastically less. http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2017/08/an-analysis-of-parity-levels-in-soccer/

Well you could have just listened to the smart guy in the thread ;)

Kudos though, good article
 

Bundesbiers

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The 50+1 rule is nowhere equal to the Salary cap in the NFL. To compare the 2 sports for parity in that perspective is wrong.

I would be happy to see a salary cap in the Bundesliga that would equate to that of the NFL. But it won't happen so there is no reason to argue it.

Yes, Bayern spent there money wisely and it completely worked out for them. But they can buy any player above any other team. RB Leipzig worked their way around the rules and I'm pissed the DFB let them do it. Nessie and I agreed to disagree as to the reasons why Red Bull was allowed to bend the rules. And my reasons worked out if you consider that RB Leipzig and RB Salzburg could have met in the CL AND Europa league that past 2 draws. This is wrong. Nowhere is there any other team that has a membership of like 38 people. Completely goes against the 50+1 rule. But regardless, the Bundesliga will never have a salary cap, because they need to spend like other European, non-German teams.
 

Croak

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Schalke did a number on Dortmund today. Also, I would love to see Hoffenheim drop Leipsig a couple spots next week. Heh heh heh.... Hope springs eternal! (From the eternal pessimist. :whistling:)
 

Itkovian

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Aw man, Batshuayi is out for the season, and could even miss the world cup. :(

BVB or no, I like that kid, he had really put in work and was doing well.
 

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