Five knee-jerk reactions to Packers first training camp practice

[Half Empty]

In case you've got a short memory, Bush, B. Jones and Hawk were torn up really bad on a regular basis last year on this forum by multiple posters.

Hence my question. Is your position that they shouldn't have been torn up?

 

[GoPGo]

As did Frank Zombo and a surprisingly large number of players nobody would call championship caliber. Playing on a championship team doesn't make you a championship player.

IMO, being a so-called "championship caliber" player would logically mean being a player who is capable of playing his position to a degree well enough to help win a championship. But call me crazy

 

[Half Empty]

IMO, being a so-called "championship caliber" player would logically mean being a player who is capable of playing his position to a degree well enough to help win a championship. But call me crazy

OK, you're crazy. Of course, you correctly began your post with "IMO", and I guess that means you're right, since you defined the parameter. I, on the other hand, have the opinion that a "championship caliber" player is one who (a) demonstrates the appropriate talent for longer than a championship game (or even a championship season) and who (b) could be expected to bring that championship to a team just at the verge. Guess this is one of those 'agree to disagree' situations.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Not sure what you mean by that as none of our defensive backs is holding out for a better contract at the moment.



Guion (three games) and Jones (one game) are suspended for the start of the season. Aside of Daniels and Guion the Packers are lacking defensive linemen capable of stopping the run.

esque...if he was the real deal he would be holding out
i will venture to say that raji will be our cornerstone against the run. not guion or daniels... the rookie 6th rounderwill impress in their absence imo. i dont see how the suspensions will affect anything after week 1

 

[Mondio]

Daniels is 10x's the player Raji ever was and I suspect he's only getting better. Why do you think it won't matter after week 1? unless boyd or Pennel or someone really steps up, we're thin at a position we shouldn't be, at least in terms of guys that can play mostly adequately. From everything i've read so far Thorton has picked up exactly where he left off and I doubt he makes it thru camp this year at this rate. An injury saved him last year, he was fortunate.

Having a thin line to start the season facing 3 teams out of the gate that love to run the ball will most likely mean high snap counts spread to less people, which then sets them up for injury especially early in the year because they aren't really conditioned to the impact the game has on their body. These suspensions are a bigger deal than most want to think.

We can avoid that of course by having our offense score early and often.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

i will venture to say that raji will be our cornerstone against the run. not guion or daniels... the rookie 6th rounderwill impress in their absence imo. i dont see how the suspensions will affect anything after week 1

It´s possible, although not likely, that Ringo will turn into an impact player like Daniels down the road as well. It´s completely unrealistic to expect that during the first weeks of his rookie season. The Packers will miss Guion during the first three weeks, especially defending the run against some of the best rushing attacks in the league.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

totally disagree about raji. this guy willbe beating double teams by midseason, after destroying the single team constantly to start. im sure most guys are on the anti-raji, pro- daniels bandwagon. but i believe raji is elite with motivation problems... daniels is above average and great when he has help.
i look forward to watching people jump this bandwagon as the season rolls on...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

totally disagree about raji. this guy willbe beating double teams by midseason, after destroying the single team constantly to start. im sure most guys are on the anti-raji, pro- daniels bandwagon. but i believe raji is elite with motivation problems... daniels is above average and great when he has help.
i look forward to watching people jump this bandwagon as the season rolls on...

There´s no doubt Raji is an exceptionally talented player but he hasn´t been motivated to put in the necessary effort to make an impact for several years now. I don´t trust that he will change until I see him doing it in the regular season. Daniels on the other side is a high-motor guy who had impressive numbers over the last two seasons without having any significant help on the defensive line.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

daniels sack numbers went down with guion at nose. thats a small window of logic, i know... but thats compared to a raji in slacker mode... id say peppers coming in, mathews moving inside with quality (healthy) depth behind them. and the secondary peaking, having more to do with gbs upswing on defense last year

 

[TJV]

Here are two snippets on Raji from a couple of days ago. The first from jsonline’s report on Tuesday’s practice:

The highlight of the one-on-ones between the offensive line and defensive line has been the jousts between NT B.J. Raji and C Corey Linsley. Raji is flying off the ball at his lighter weight (327), and Linsley has been matching him step for step.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...uesday-at-a-glance-b99550070z1-320711051.html

This is from Packers Notes from the same day:

Nose tackle B.J. Raji is in good shape and he appears to be motivated, but don’t expect him to be a dominant force at the point of attack. Unlike Ryan Pickett, he too often allows his leverage to be compromised by standing straight up out of his stance. The coaches are obviously willing to live with that as long as the former No. 1 pick uses his athleticism to make plays down the line of scrimmage and in the backfield – something he’s done a few times this summer.

http://packersnotes.com/2015/08/mccarthy-is-everywhere/

This jsonline story from yesterday was very encouraging expanding on the early TC matchup between Raji and Linsley but concentrating on Linsley:

Superior strength: Center Corey Linsley's best physical asset is his strength.
It's one reason why he was able to step in and start 16 games as a rookie last season. It was rare when he ran into someone who could beat him strictly with power. According to offensive line coach James Campen, Linsley came back for his season even stronger. It has been evident every time Linsley and nose tackle B.J. Raji have locked up in one-on-one pass rush drills. "Two big bulls in there," Campen said. "It's fun to watch. He did a great job in the weight room. All those guys (linemen) did."

Campen said Linsley still has room to grow as a player. "It's his second training camp," he said. "He played a lot of ball last year, and those are lessons learned all the way through. Now you apply them to get better at your trade, and that's what he's doing. "He's going to be a better player than he was last year."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...ices-as-return-men-b99551144z1-320838761.html

A “better player than he was last year” will be really f’ing good.

 

[TJV]

daniels sack numbers went down with guion at nose. thats a small window of logic, i know... but thats compared to a raji in slacker mode... id say peppers coming in, mathews moving inside with quality (healthy) depth behind them. and the secondary peaking, having more to do with gbs upswing on defense last year

Very small "window of logic" which ignores the fact that Daniels was given the RE starting job in base last season - he was used less often in sub packages vs. 2013. That had a lot more to do with his one less sack (than in 2013) and fewer pressures than who was starting at NT.

 

[PackFan2]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...uesday-at-a-glance-b99550070z1-320711051.html White has proven he can be a NFL WR. Even if he doesn't make the Packers team, I hope he does well elsewhere. IDK whats the fuss is about Abbrederis but White is clearly better than Abby. White has shown time and time again he is improving. That deserves some respect and has caught the eyes of some of the coaches. I think Abby, and Coxson gets put on IR. Watch out for Montgomery to have a Cobb like season rookie season, contributing on special teams.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

i was dumbfounded when worthy failed so bad. the back injury to blame? anyways, that year i said i think daniels short bowling ball, quick and strong, will be a starter by year 2... before worthy busted. i feel the same way about ringo, even though i cant seem to remember his name . jones might be a back up if his development stalls again. guion and raji on 1 year deals... im looking forward to the rookie to be thrown in the fire, and see what happens... very much

 

[Mondio]

I think WOrthy was a disappointment to all of us. I really expected more from him, but he got injured and derailed big time.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

im impressed with lindsley. him and bahktiari have filled two gaping holes and allowed the rest to simply play their part. bulaga at lt and barclay at rt. detrich smith at center.... average line at best...
the whole team is coming together

 

[PackFan2]

i was dumbfounded when worthy failed so bad. the back injury to blame? anyways, that year i said i think daniels short bowling ball, quick and strong, will be a starter by year 2... before worthy busted. i feel the same way about ringo, even though i cant seem to remember his name . jones might be a back up if his development stalls again. guion and raji on 1 year deals... im looking forward to the rookie to be thrown in the fire, and see what happens... very much

Undrafted Pennel is built like Vince Wilfork and had Raji calling Pennel a mini Wilfork lol

 

[TJV]

What I remember about Worthy was all the talk about his quick first step which worked well enough against Big Ten OLs to get him selected in the second round. But it didn’t translate to the NFL, even before his injury. Even if it had, I don’t think he would have been stout enough to do well starting at DE, but he would have been a valuable asset rushing the passer in the sub packages.

The other thing I remember is McGinn writing the Packers panicked in trading up for Worthy (they traded their 4th rounder to move up 8 spots in the second round to #51). He wrote they wanted Kendall Reyes, but the Chargers picked him at #49.

 

[sschind]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...uesday-at-a-glance-b99550070z1-320711051.html White has proven he can be a NFL WR. Even if he doesn't make the Packers team, I hope he does well elsewhere. IDK whats the fuss is about Abbrederis but White is clearly better than Abby. White has shown time and time again he is improving. That deserves some respect and has caught the eyes of some of the coaches. I think Abby, and Coxson gets put on IR. Watch out for Montgomery to have a Cobb like season rookie season, contributing on special teams.

I'll believe that when he takes a snap in a regular season game. Until then he has not proven to me that he can be an NFL receiver. IMO the Packers have 3 on their roster that have proven to me they can be NFL receivers. After that they have several players that have the potential to be NFL receivers.

So far I really like what I am hearing about Montgomery. White has been a pleasant surprise and Janis may be as well. It wouldn't surprise me to see Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, Janis, and White as our 6 with Janis or White the odd man out if we go with 5. I'd be happy with that group and normally I would say I wouldn't get too excited about our #4 but if it does turn out to be Montgomery he just seems like he can do some amazing things with the ball and I think MM would try to work him into the offense more than he did Boykin or Janis or whoever was our #4 last year.

 

[PackFan2]

I'll believe that when he takes a snap in a regular season game. Until then he has not proven to me that he can be an NFL receiver. IMO the Packers have 3 on their roster that have proven to me they can be NFL receivers. After that they have several players that have the potential to be NFL receivers.

So far I really like what I am hearing about Montgomery. White has been a pleasant surprise and Janis may be as well. It wouldn't surprise me to see Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, Janis, and White as our 6 with Janis or White the odd man out if we go with 5. I'd be happy with that group and normally I would say I wouldn't get too excited about our #4 but if it does turn out to be Montgomery he just seems like he can do some amazing things with the ball and I think MM would try to work him into the offense more than he did Boykin or Janis or whoever was our #4 last year.

White has taken snaps in regular season *see his 2013 season* Like I said.. White is better than Abberubbish *sorry if I offend anyone*, as of right now. So I dont see whats the big fuss about Abby, who has barely practiced and never had an NFL game. The talk should be about White. He would contribute as a gunner, etc.. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...kers-training-camp-week-2-stock-report/page/2

Im waiting to see the first kickoff return of Montgomery. Hope it turns out like Cobbs! Carl Bradford is the dark horse. Get him some playing time and he'll improve. if not. outtta herreee

 

[Poppa San]

im impressed with lindsley. him and bahktiari have filled two gaping holes and allowed the rest to simply play their part. bulaga at lt and barclay at rt. detrich smith at center.... average line at best...
the whole team is coming together

who?

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

who?

who wouldve been the center if we didnt find lindsley last year?

 

[GoPGo]

OK, you're crazy. Of course, you correctly began your post with "IMO", and I guess that means you're right, since you defined the parameter. I, on the other hand, have the opinion that a "championship caliber" player is one who (a) demonstrates the appropriate talent for longer than a championship game (or even a championship season) and who (b) could be expected to bring that championship to a team just at the verge. Guess this is one of those 'agree to disagree' situations.

And no team has more than 2 or 3 of those guys on their entire roster. So basically you're criticizing Hawk for not being among the top 5% of NFL players. That doesn't mean he wasn't a good LB.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

daniels sack numbers went down with guion at nose. thats a small window of logic, i know... but thats compared to a raji in slacker mode

Daniels was as productive as a pass rusher last season than in 2013. By the way Ryan Pickett was the starting nose tackle two years ago, Guion was an upgrade over him.

I think Abby, and Coxson gets put on IR.

Both are going through the league´s concussion protocol as of now. With more than a month to go before the regular season opener I don´t see any reason one of them will be put on IR because of it.

The other thing I remember is McGinn writing the Packers panicked in trading up for Worthy (they traded their 4th rounder to move up 8 spots in the second round to #51). He wrote they wanted Kendall Reyes, but the Chargers picked him at #49.

Reyes has been mostly terrible during his NFL career as well, especially in run defense.

I'll believe that when he takes a snap in a regular season game. Until then he has not proven to me that he can be an NFL receiver. IMO the Packers have 3 on their roster that have proven to me they can be NFL receivers.

White got significant playing time during two games in 2013 and caught six passes for 44 yards mostly lining up in the slot.

who wouldve been the center if we didnt find lindsley last year?

The Packers planned on starting JC Tretter at center before he got injured during the preseason.

 

[PikeBadger]

Hence my question. Is your position that they shouldn't have been torn up?

Yes, I think it was well over the top. Much of the language was downright mean-spirited. We are talking about a team that wins the division every year. Some people have a serious problem with keyboard control.

 

[Half Empty]

And no team has more than 2 or 3 of those guys on their entire roster. So basically you're criticizing Hawk for not being among the top 5% of NFL players. That doesn't mean he wasn't a good LB.

No, I criticize AJ for not being able to get to opposing ballcarriers (I understand the number of tackles - the problem is where they were made). He probably was a 'good' LB, at least until his last year or two. That, in my mind, does not equate to being a 'championship caliber' player, which was your point. Mine was that being on the 2010 team doesn't make a particular individual superior (which is how I defined a championship caliber player).

Also disagree with your first point. Taking a team we all know pretty well, I'd say there would be little argument with Nelson, Cobb, AR, Matthews, Shields, Sitton, Lacy and, perhaps, Bulaga, a safety or two, Lang, Linsley.