Favre

[porky88]

His accuracy has been off but he has not been costing us games !!!

He hasn't been helping as much lately though and that's one of many many problems this team has. We could make an on going list and that would on there and that's what Ryan is saying with this thread.

I could be wrong but I thought he ran for a couple of first downs today porky. I would call this helping even if he is not as accurate as of late. This does not include the experience that I assume is being passed on in the locker room by Brett !!!

Threw some picks as well. In fact all of his INT's have come in the Packers 8 loses.

He could have been perfect today and we still lose by over 20.

Good point but how about the note worthy Saints and Rams games. 6-6 and we are in the playoff hunt right now. The Buffalo game as well. That's 7-5.

It's not all of Favre's fault but if people are going to continue to give him a free pass because of the players around them then I'm going to show notworthy stats and this one is big.

Fact is this team lives and dies with him. They can't afford him getting "anxious" with the ball right now.

How in the world are the saints and rams games on Favre? He throws one int against the saints while getting hit and gets the ball stripped from behind against the rams....The big reason we are losing this year doesn't lie on the offensive side of the ball at all, IMO.

Please read my entire post Cory. It's not to long.

Sorry to get on you but when ever Favre is brought up it’s far to touchy of a subject.

You missed this line

It's not all of Favre's fault

I BOLDED the main word.

My point with Favre is he is not helping us with his play right now. When he's on he's great but when he's off he absolutely kills us. He needs to be held accountable for the mistakes he makes. Just like people get on receivers for drop balls and the rookie offensive lineman for struggling or Mike McCarthy for play calling. All of those things can be factored into the equation. It's a long equation but Brett Favre and his mistakes are apart of it.

As for the two plays. Favre held the ball to long and even Chris Havel made comment on that and he is the Ultimate Brett Favre guy. Against the Saints that throw was an awful mistake. Live for another down. Favre was trying to throw it away I guess but he is as crafty as any QB in the league and should've just taking the sack. Was it all his fault on those plays and for us losing the game? Not at all. Was it SOME of his fault? Yes some being the key word and that's my point.

Edit: Something is also wrong when someone has to defend Favre by going well he ran for 2 first downs so he was helping that way. Not knacking anyone and I understand but that's not how we should be praising the MVP Brett Favre.

 

[rundemc]

the biggest issues, which rundemc is alluding to, is that it's well known that brett gets more careless when the pack are behind, yet there is seemingly no accountability or reason for him not to play that way. What sort of message does that send to the team?

thank you thats what i was trying to say
i wasnt trying to say favre was the biggest problem with the team but it just appears that u cant do anything about the way he plays because hes favre

 

[musccy]

to add to porky88s good post, this thread isn't about the defense sucking...nobody denies that, you can't expect your qb/offense to cover 38 points...start another thread if you want to talk about our **** poor defense and how they're, debatably, the main reason for us losing.

This thread is about brett, and how his mechanics are off, he's forcing passes, and that he needs to be held accountable for when he messes up.

 

[Cory]

I'm gonna go ahead and answer porky and run with the same post.

What did Favre do that cost us the game today? I know you say it's not "all" Brett's fault, but if it's not then why is this subject even brought up? What? Brett's not "helping" well actually I believe he is considering he's one of the main reasons we have been competitive at all this season.

I guess I'm just not seeing your point at all. I'll repeat myself. The jets offense scored a fg and 4 tds on their first five posessions. If Brett had thrown 3-4 ints during this stretch then your "he needs to be held accountable and he cant get anxious when we fall behind yadda yadda" may be valid, but what exaclty did Favre do here that validates those arguments?

 

[Cory]

to add to porky88s good post, this thread isn't about the defense sucking...nobody denies that, you can't expect your qb/offense to cover 38 points...start another thread if you want to talk about our **** poor defense and how they're, debatably, the main reason for us losing.

This thread is about brett, and how his mechanics are off, he's forcing passes, and that he needs to be held accountable for when he messes up.

The more I hear "he needs to be held accountable" the more it sounds like a blanket statement. I hear this quite often. "he needs to be held accountable"....by whom? The coaching staff? Do we know what is said in the meetings and the review of gamefilm? By the fans? I think he IS being held accountable by the fans which is why this discussion is going on right now. Anyone going to deny that he has in fact been more careful with the football this season?

 

[gopackgo]

Brett has thrown the 3rd highest amount of attempts (403), just behind Kitna (404), and Brees (413). His interceptions match Brees with 10, so I do not think his INT are killing us. It is his pass %. He currently has a 57.1% completion rating, well behind the average. As many of said, his receiving corps are not very familiar with the system, or extremely talented. Remember Koren Robinson? Somehow he always stepped up to make a good play (when he was playing). Koren was that threat that was open behind Jennings and Driver. If there is a good couple of receivers under Brett, he will make plays.

But is Brett costing the team wins? No. And no backup QB will do better than him right now.

 

[musccy]

If Franks drops 3 balls today would that cost us the game? Probably not, but does that mean you look the other way?

it appears that he's not being held accountable in these team meetings or on any level since he continues to revert to his "gunslinger, swing for the fences since we're down already" mentality.

 

[porky88]

Today's game doesn't need to be mention. I didn't need to mention today's game because I had it down as an L. If I thought he would of made a difference today I would of said so. Today's game was lost before it started. Same with Eagles, Bears, Seahawks, and Patriots. I tried to show you how a difference can be made in the close games. Such as Rams, Bills, and Saints. Favre’s mistakes ended up being huge in those games.

Also the fans are not holding Favre accountable. Some are but most aren't. Most try to put it off on someone else. Most are fast to blame Mike McCarthy. People will blame the offensive line and the receivers for his mistakes. People will denounce someone like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady to try and make Favre look better. The fact is if every fan held Favre accountable for his mistakes it would be such a "touchy" subject.

Musccy is right. Franks drops a pass and he gets criticized from sunrise to sunset. Favre makes a bad throw most try to put if off on someone else.

 

[Cory]

If Franks drops 3 balls today would that cost us the game? Probably not, but does that mean you look the other way?

it appears that he's not being held accountable in these team meetings or on any level since he continues to revert to his "gunslinger, swing for the fences since we're down already" mentality.

And how did he do that today?

 

[rundemc]

for me it all goes back to the offseason when he couldnt make up his mind and when asked about it he said what r the packers going to do cut me and sometimes, not just todays game, when he just chucks the ball up for grabs i just think back to that statement where he gives the impression that he can do whatever he feels like and there is nothing the packer management can do about it because he is a legend and no matter what he does the fans will be on his side

 

[Cory]

Today's game doesn't need to be mention. I didn't need to mention today's game because I had it down as an L. If I thought he would of made a difference today I would of said so. Today's game was lost before it started. Same with Eagles, Bears, Seahawks, and Patriots. I tried to show you how a difference can be made in the close games. Such as Rams, Bills, and Saints. Favre’s mistakes ended up being huge in those games.

Also the fans are not holding Favre accountable. Some are but most aren't. Most try to put it off on someone else. Most are fast to blame Mike McCarthy. People will blame the offensive line and the receivers for his mistakes. People will denounce someone like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady to try and make Favre look better. The fact is if every fan held Favre accountable for his mistakes it would be such a "touchy" subject.

It's a touchy subject for most people. I just don't understand the logic. You just got done saying "its not all on favre" and then call them his mistakes. He tries to throw it away INSTEAD of taking a sack and gets hit from behind as he throws it. Again in the rams game gets stripped from behind just as he's about to throw the ball. On that particular play stepping up into the pocket wasn't even an option as Kennedy was crashing down on him as well.

 

[porky88]

Today's game doesn't need to be mention. I didn't need to mention today's game because I had it down as an L. If I thought he would of made a difference today I would of said so. Today's game was lost before it started. Same with Eagles, Bears, Seahawks, and Patriots. I tried to show you how a difference can be made in the close games. Such as Rams, Bills, and Saints. Favre’s mistakes ended up being huge in those games.

Also the fans are not holding Favre accountable. Some are but most aren't. Most try to put it off on someone else. Most are fast to blame Mike McCarthy. People will blame the offensive line and the receivers for his mistakes. People will denounce someone like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady to try and make Favre look better. The fact is if every fan held Favre accountable for his mistakes it would be such a "touchy" subject.

It's a touchy subject for most people. I just don't understand the logic. You just got done saying "its not all on favre" and then call them his mistakes. He tries to throw it away INSTEAD of taking a sack and gets hit from behind as he throws it. Again in the rams game gets stripped from behind just as he's about to throw the ball. On that particular play stepping up into the pocket wasn't even an option as Kennedy was crashing down on him as well.

Favre isn't the only person making mistakes.

Franks is. Do I need to go into the Defense?

Again I'm not singling Favre out. I'm adding him to the list. This thread is about Favre. Look on other threads or make another one and I'll talk about Manuel, Collins, Dendy, KGB, etc...

This one is about Favre and his mistakes. He's just as much accountable for his as Nick Collins is for his.

 

[WinnipegPackFan]

"Edit: Something is also wrong when someone has to defend Favre by going well he ran for 2 first downs so he was helping that way. Not knacking anyone and I understand but that's not how we should be praising the MVP Brett Favre".

That was my post Porky and I am a big boy and can take the heat for anything I write so feel free to mention my name. With that being said, it was a quick comment that I guess I should have put more thought into when I wrote it.

The question I believe was along the lines of how was he helping us now and the couple of first down runs were just the first thing that came into my mind but to add further:

Even though Brett is still regarded by many to be a top ten QB in the NFL and his stats back this up besides the completion percentage; it is the experience, drive and leadership qualities that we do not always take into account where Brett helps this team the most. This is a young team.

We both know Brett maybe has one year left at the most ( before he decides to retire ) but during this last couple of years, the knowledge that can be passed down to our young receivers and next QB is something that you can't put a stat on in my opinion.

Good leadership is not easy to find these days and our younger players will mature faster and more rounded with Brett at the helm than with one more young QB who is not fully developed yet, but this is just my opinion friend !!!

 

[Cory]

Today's game doesn't need to be mention. I didn't need to mention today's game because I had it down as an L. If I thought he would of made a difference today I would of said so. Today's game was lost before it started. Same with Eagles, Bears, Seahawks, and Patriots. I tried to show you how a difference can be made in the close games. Such as Rams, Bills, and Saints. Favre’s mistakes ended up being huge in those games.

Also the fans are not holding Favre accountable. Some are but most aren't. Most try to put it off on someone else. Most are fast to blame Mike McCarthy. People will blame the offensive line and the receivers for his mistakes. People will denounce someone like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady to try and make Favre look better. The fact is if every fan held Favre accountable for his mistakes it would be such a "touchy" subject.

It's a touchy subject for most people. I just don't understand the logic. You just got done saying "its not all on favre" and then call them his mistakes. He tries to throw it away INSTEAD of taking a sack and gets hit from behind as he throws it. Again in the rams game gets stripped from behind just as he's about to throw the ball. On that particular play stepping up into the pocket wasn't even an option as Kennedy was crashing down on him as well.

Favre isn't the only person making mistakes.

Franks is. Do I need to go into the Defense?

Again I'm not singling Favre out. I'm adding him to the list. This thread is about Favre. Look on other threads or make another one and I'll talk about Manuel, Collins, Dendy, KGB, etc...

This one is about Favre and his mistakes. He's just as much accountable for his as Nick Collins is for his.

See that's where I agree. Favre is and should be held accountable for every mistake he makes, but why does the "is he costing us games" come up? With the way this defense plays and the 6 million rookies we seem to have involved I can't even fathom the logic the question of "is he costing us games"....

 

[WinnipegPackFan]

Today's game doesn't need to be mention. I didn't need to mention today's game because I had it down as an L. If I thought he would of made a difference today I would of said so. Today's game was lost before it started. Same with Eagles, Bears, Seahawks, and Patriots. I tried to show you how a difference can be made in the close games. Such as Rams, Bills, and Saints. Favre’s mistakes ended up being huge in those games.

Also the fans are not holding Favre accountable. Some are but most aren't. Most try to put it off on someone else. Most are fast to blame Mike McCarthy. People will blame the offensive line and the receivers for his mistakes. People will denounce someone like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady to try and make Favre look better. The fact is if every fan held Favre accountable for his mistakes it would be such a "touchy" subject.

It's a touchy subject for most people. I just don't understand the logic. You just got done saying "its not all on favre" and then call them his mistakes. He tries to throw it away INSTEAD of taking a sack and gets hit from behind as he throws it. Again in the rams game gets stripped from behind just as he's about to throw the ball. On that particular play stepping up into the pocket wasn't even an option as Kennedy was crashing down on him as well.

Favre isn't the only person making mistakes.

Franks is. Do I need to go into the Defense?

Again I'm not singling Favre out. I'm adding him to the list. This thread is about Favre. Look on other threads or make another one and I'll talk about Manuel, Collins, Dendy, KGB, etc...

This one is about Favre and his mistakes. He's just as much accountable for his as Nick Collins is for his.

See that's where I agree. Favre is and should be held accountable for every mistake he makes, but why does the "is he costing us games" come up? With the way this defense plays and the 6 million rookies we seem to have involved I can't even fathom the logic the question of "is he costing us games"....

He is not costing us games Cory. The problem here is that he is expected to play a "perfect game" every game because this team is so young in talent it can't afford "One mistake" but the irony here is that today he could have played a "perfect game" and we still would have lost because of other problem areas !!!

 

[porky88]

WinnipegPackFan I thought it was you but I wasn't sure and I didn't feel like finding it so I didn’t drop any names.

I agree with what you said. He provides all those things. The one problem is though as of late he's not providing us with the stuff on the field. I completely agree he's still a top 10 QB in the NFL and probably top 5 in the NFC but he needs to start playing like it.

Cory, Favre isn't the only one costing us. There are so many players costing the Packers right now. The fact is this is a team sport and you can find many players ******** up on every play.

An example: For every Favre INT, I could probably pick the film apart and find 4 or 5 players that did something wrong. My point is I'm going to point out Favre along with those other players. If Favre is costing us I'm going to say it and point the obvious. Same for Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, AJ Hawk Al Harris or any Packer player.

When you do it to Favre though you get labeled a Favre "basher" or T.T. "lover"

When you do it to Al Harris or anyone else no one cares. That is why Favre is a touchy subject to some. I think it's only fair to be critical of Favre when he makes his bad plays just as anyone would Al Harris for getting burnt or Greg Jennings for dropping the ball.

 

[tromadz]

When you do it to Favre though you get labeled a Favre "basher" or T.T. "lover"

yeah, thats a ***** aint it

 

[Yared-Yam]

yeah, thats a ***** aint it

I want to watch McCarthy's press conference again. It kind of lightened my spirits a little bit because he was so angry.

Also, if Favre retires, it's Ingle time

 

[Cory]

WinnipegPackFan I thought it was you but I wasn't sure and I didn't feel like finding it so I didn’t drop any names.

I agree with what you said. He provides all those things. The one problem is though as of late he's not providing us with the stuff on the field. I completely agree he's still a top 10 QB in the NFL and probably top 5 in the NFC but he needs to start playing like it.

Cory, Favre isn't the only one costing us. There are so many players costing the Packers right now. The fact is this is a team sport and you can find many players ******** up on every play.

An example: For every Favre INT, I could probably pick the film apart and find 4 or 5 players that did something wrong. My point is I'm going to point out Favre along with those other players. If Favre is costing us I'm going to say it and point the obvious. Same for Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, AJ Hawk Al Harris or any Packer player.

When you do it to Favre though you get labeled a Favre "basher" or T.T. "lover"

When you do it to Al Harris or anyone else no one cares. That is why Favre is a touchy subject to some. I think it's only fair to be critical of Favre when he makes his bad plays just as anyone would Al Harris for getting burnt or Greg Jennings for dropping the ball.

I've never liked the term "favre basher" on people although it's obvious that some just don't like him which is fine that's their opinion. I can see that you, ryan and such are giving out constructive criticism.

My point is if you put Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in this same situation we may very well be having this same exact convo about either one of those guys. I'm not even really sure of the debate we are having to be honest. If we both agree he should be held accountable and that he isn't costing us games then what exactly are we talking about?

 

[IronMan]

WinnipegPackFan I thought it was you but I wasn't sure and I didn't feel like finding it so I didn’t drop any names.

I agree with what you said. He provides all those things. The one problem is though as of late he's not providing us with the stuff on the field. I completely agree he's still a top 10 QB in the NFL and probably top 5 in the NFC but he needs to start playing like it.

Cory, Favre isn't the only one costing us. There are so many players costing the Packers right now. The fact is this is a team sport and you can find many players ******** up on every play.

An example: For every Favre INT, I could probably pick the film apart and find 4 or 5 players that did something wrong. My point is I'm going to point out Favre along with those other players. If Favre is costing us I'm going to say it and point the obvious. Same for Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, AJ Hawk Al Harris or any Packer player.

When you do it to Favre though you get labeled a Favre "basher" or T.T. "lover"

When you do it to Al Harris or anyone else no one cares. That is why Favre is a touchy subject to some. I think it's only fair to be critical of Favre when he makes his bad plays just as anyone would Al Harris for getting burnt or Greg Jennings for dropping the ball.

I've never liked the term "favre basher" on people although it's obvious that some just don't like him which is fine that's their opinion. I can see that you, ryan and such are giving out constructive criticism.

My point is if you put Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in this same situation we may very well be having this same exact convo about either one of those guys. I'm not even really sure of the debate we are having to be honest. If we both agree he should be held accountable and that he isn't costing us games then what exactly are we talking about?

Anything to deflect the blame from Thompson or McCarthy. Thats all I can figure.

 

[Buckeyepackfan]

I have not read the posts on this thread so if I am repeating something that someone else has said, sorry in advance.

It seems to me that every time Brett throws the ball he has to force it into tight coverage because our receivers are not getting any seperation.

Brett has been off, but what are we comparing him too? Some on this forum have put Brett on such a high pedastool, when he does have a normal day it is sub-par and when he has a poor day, well everything that goes wrong is his fault.

Don't forget when The Pack won the superbowl we had the #1 defense in the league along with the #1 offense.

Brett Favre is a great qb who is on the back side of his career, but that doesn't mean he should be saddled with all the blame, he is going to make the plays a "young Brett" made, and he is going to make mistakes, but as of right now, I'll take Brett Favre over any other option we have, and hopefully I can enjoy at least one or two more victories with Brett at QB.

 

[DeusNova]

"Is his inaccuracy losing games?"

No, our defense is.

 

[4packgirl]

Without questions his accuracy has been off. Is it costing us games? If he's missing his target and its going incomplete or intercepted, I think its obviously costing us atleast points on the board.

I'm pretty confident if he'd make better decisions with better accuracy we'd have atleast one more win, if not two under our belt.

I don't think benching him is the cure. I think they need to get his confidence built during the early course of the game. Run the ball, do some different things with the rush to keep the defense on their toes. Pass the ball to the TE and RB in the flats and some quick slants.

I'm no expert, I really don't know that ones accuracy diminishes after a period of time. Arm strength does and I think Brett thinks his arm is stronger than it really is.

Recap. Give Brett something better to work with on offense and build his confidence. Another good thing, remove the SCORE so he doesn't know how far behind the Packers are! LoL

agree 100%, kev - good god - did i just say that?!?

absolutely, his inaccuracy (for whatever reason) has cost us games but he is our best choice right now - live with it or jump off the bandwagon!!

 

[Timmons]

Brett has NEVER been an accurate QB. And yes, that has cost us games. Has his gunslinger style pulled him out of more trouble than he's gotten us into? I don't think so, but it sure is fun to watch. I think the Pack will be better when he's gone, AS long as they replace him with an accurate QB who takes care of the ball.

Consistency is the key to this game and Brett never had it. Now that the O line is learning and the receivers are young, it becomes even more apparent.

When he goes, we'll all miss him, but the Packers will be better for it.

As for the debate of this thread. Yes, Brett has not been accurate and it's been more obvious the last two games ( I think the pass rush has been more of a factor than his groin), but that has not been losing us games. That lies with the defense.

 

[Heatherthepackgirl]

I am staying out of this thread!! LOL....the only think I can say is Brett isnt the one loosing us our games IMO...thats all I am going to say...