Ed Policy named as Murphy's successor

[Thirteen Below]

And it doesn't matter. The city has always managed to attract top talent and keep them. Even the players tend to stay as long as possible/practical.

Well, I wouldn't say "always". Remember the Dark Ages, between Lombardi and Wolf/Holmgren. For much of that 20-year sentence, other teams used to keep unruly players in line by threatening to trade them to Green Bay.

It wasn't until Bob Harlan was elected president in 89, and then hired Ron Wolf (who, in turn, hired Mike Holmgren) that the tide started to turn. Those three were able to get the early word out that something was changing in Green Bay - and the floodgates really opened in 92, when Reggie White obeyed Holmgren's divine command and chose to play in Green Bay.

That was the start of our new Golden Age, because we've been one of the top 4 or 5 in the league, and everyone wants tp play for a winner.

In fact, I believe we have the highest winning percentage in the NFL since 92. But I'd have to check that to be sure; we might be behind the Steelers by a game or two.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Well, I wouldn't say "always". Remember the Dark Ages, between Lombardi and Wolf/Holmgren. For much of that 20-year sentence, other teams used to keep unruly players in line by threatening to trade them to Green Bay.

It wasn't until Bob Harlan was elected president in 89, and then hired Ron Wolf (who, in turn, hired Mike Holmgren) that the tide started to turn. Those three were able to get the early word out that something was changing in Green Bay - and the floodgates really opened in 92, when Reggie White obeyed Holmgren's divine command and chose to play in Green Bay.

That was the start of our new Golden Age, because we've been one of the top 4 or 5 in the league, and everyone wants tp play for a winner.

In fact, I believe we have the highest winning percentage in the NFL since 92. But I'd have to check that to be sure; we might be behind the Steelers by a game or two.

Agree. I actually think the signing of Reggie White was the turning point of the last 30 years. Not just the most sought after FA at the time, but a black guy in his prime willing to go to GB. All the other guys you note played big roles. It was White's decision to come to GB that finally turned the tide of misery.

 

[PikeBadger]

Russ Ball seems like a good candidate. It sounds though like Policy was selected a while ago as the heir apparent to Murphy. I don't know anything about the guy. My guess is that he has a better-rounded resume than Russ Ball. That, and Ball is very good at what he does. If he gets paid enough money, I'm sure he'll be happy to stay.

I think Russ Ball has found the job he is best at performing. Imo, Ball is amazing. I still laugh at the ridiculous amounts of guaranteed money other NFL franchises are throwing at players. Ball remains hard and fast, patient, disciplined, and maintains a good rapport with players and agents. Amazingly enough, agents like and respect him and fully understand he won't waver and cave in to demands. He also has shown a considerable level of adaptation to rapidly changing circumstances and is creative enough to find ways to keep a guy like Dillon on the roster. I truly hope that he has an underling that is paying very close attention. Ball is in his 60's and won't be around too much longer I suspect.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think Russ Ball has found the job he is best at performing. Imo, Ball is amazing. I still laugh at the ridiculous amounts of guaranteed money other NFL franchises are throwing at players. Ball remains hard and fast, patient, disciplined, and maintains a good rapport with players and agents. Amazingly enough, agents like and respect him and fully understand he won't waver and cave in to demands. He also has shown a considerable level of adaptation to rapidly changing circumstances and is creative enough to find ways to keep a guy like Dillon on the roster. I truly hope that he has an underling that is paying very close attention. Ball is in his 60's and won't be around too much longer I suspect.

Well said. There's nothing wrong with someone knowing what they're good at and sticking with it. I think RB is probably very content in his role and has no aspiration for a larger executive role. And you're right, I hope there is an under study because he won't be around that much longer.

He has an unsung role, but certainly a very valuable role.

 

[PikeBadger]

Well said. There's nothing wrong with someone knowing what they're good at and sticking with it. I think RB is probably very content in his role and has no aspiration for a larger executive role. And you're right, I hope there is an under study because he won't be around that much longer.

He has an unsung role, but certainly a very valuable role.

One of the best things about our management team is that they are relatively quiet publicly about their work. I love it that they are not a noisy bunch.

 

[Thirteen Below]

One of the best things about our management team is that they are relatively quiet publicly about their work. I love it that they are not a noisy bunch.

Being in Grerern Bay helps a ton. It's a lot easier to skeep a low profile and lide under the radar here than the East Coast urban teams or even Chicago and LA for that matter.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Being in Grerern Bay helps a ton. It's a lot easier to skeep a low profile and lide under the radar here than the East Coast urban teams or even Chicago and LA for that matter.

Good point 13. And maybe over time, and based on what they see when they travel to big markets, players are happy to return to the relative quiet of GB. I never really looked at it that way, but it makes sense.

And when the season is underway, except for maybe the bye, these guys are working hard or resting. That can be dome anywhere. The players are well paid, and rightfully so, but they don't have much of a personal life from Sept through January, February if they're lucky.

 

[El Guapo]

Regarding Russ Ball, apparently a lot of you are forgetting why we have this unusual management structure in Green Bay. A significant part of it was because of Russ Ball's ambitions to become GM, McCarthy's opposition to it, and Mark Murphy's subsequent pacification plan to promote Ball to Executive VP & Director of Football Operations - somewhat equal footing with the GM.

While I certainly can't speak to Russ Ball's intent and motivations today, there were clearly decisions made in the past to retain yet manage him in his quest to replace Ted Thompson as the new GM. He's apparently played well with Gutekunst and LaFleur so far but how this plays out under a new Packers president remains ahead. Those of you talking about Russ Ball being content with doing what he does best, are not recognizing the reality of his relationship with the Packers and his previously stated ambitions.

Old article but it does validate many of the things that I remembered about Ball in the restructuring process. Somewhere out there was another article that went into greater detail about Ball:

Silverstein: Critics of Mark Murphy's new Packers management structure say it could lead to dysfunction

The Packers enjoyed consistent success when Ron Wolf and Ted Thompson were running the team. Critics claim a revamped management setup has expanded Mark Murphy's influence and unduly enhanced Russ Ball's role.

www.packersnews.com

 

[Heyjoe4]

Regarding Russ Ball, apparently a lot of you are forgetting why we have this unusual management structure in Green Bay. A significant part of it was because of Russ Ball's ambitions to become GM, McCarthy's opposition to it, and Mark Murphy's subsequent pacification plan to promote Ball to Executive VP & Director of Football Operations - somewhat equal footing with the GM.

While I certainly can't speak to Russ Ball's intent and motivations today, there were clearly decisions made in the past to retain yet manage him in his quest to replace Ted Thompson as the new GM. He's apparently played well with Gutekunst and LaFleur so far but how this plays out under a new Packers president remains ahead. Those of you talking about Russ Ball being content with doing what he does best, are not recognizing the reality of his relationship with the Packers and his previously stated ambitions.

Old article but it does validate many of the things that I remembered about Ball in the restructuring process. Somewhere out there was another article that went into greater detail about Ball:

Silverstein: Critics of Mark Murphy's new Packers management structure say it could lead to dysfunction

The Packers enjoyed consistent success when Ron Wolf and Ted Thompson were running the team. Critics claim a revamped management setup has expanded Mark Murphy's influence and unduly enhanced Russ Ball's role.

www.packersnews.com

Yeah I do seem to recall that Ball was positioning for the GM gig before Gluten got it, but it didn't seem to be a big deal. Not like he wanted to sit on the Iron Throne. The question I have - if Russ Ball really was GM material why didn't he go somewhere else after Gluten got the job? The only answers I can think of is that he really didn't want to be a GM, or there were no other teams who wanted him. I think it's the former.

Operations and Finance are certainly skills a GM needs, but the primary job is talent acquisition and team building. Could be that Ball just didn't have the chops for that.

So maybe Murphy's ****** up org structure was meant to placate Ball. That's still a terrible reason for a terrible org structure - where the HC, GM and Director of Finance and Operations all report to the president. My guess is that Policy will put a quick end to that. I think in most organizations the HC and operations, finance guys report to the GM, who reports to the president or the BOD.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Regarding Russ Ball, apparently a lot of you are forgetting why we have this unusual management structure in Green Bay. A significant part of it was because of Russ Ball's ambitions to become GM, McCarthy's opposition to it, and Mark Murphy's subsequent pacification plan to promote Ball to Executive VP & Director of Football Operations - somewhat equal footing with the GM.

While I certainly can't speak to Russ Ball's intent and motivations today, there were clearly decisions made in the past to retain yet manage him in his quest to replace Ted Thompson as the new GM. He's apparently played well with Gutekunst and LaFleur so far but how this plays out under a new Packers president remains ahead. Those of you talking about Russ Ball being content with doing what he does best, are not recognizing the reality of his relationship with the Packers and his previously stated ambitions.

Old article but it does validate many of the things that I remembered about Ball in the restructuring process. Somewhere out there was another article that went into greater detail about Ball:

Silverstein: Critics of Mark Murphy's new Packers management structure say it could lead to dysfunction

The Packers enjoyed consistent success when Ron Wolf and Ted Thompson were running the team. Critics claim a revamped management setup has expanded Mark Murphy's influence and unduly enhanced Russ Ball's role.

www.packersnews.com

Really informative article, thanks for posting. It explains more to me about McCarthy's exit from Green Bay. Seems it wasn't just about the football being played on the field, but possibly more about the rift that had been created between Murphy/Packer organization, Russ Ball and McCarthy, due to how Ball was retained.

Seems that Murphy thought that Russ Ball was far too valuable for the organization to lose, so the creation of another position and a splitting up of Ted Thompsons duties was his answer. I guess Murphy felt retaining Ball in some shape or form was worth losing McCarthy over. In the process he seems to have watered down the decision making of all the positions, including HC.

I guess the jury is still kind of out on if it was a smart move or not. I do think Ball is a valuable asset to the Packers, with what he does on the number crunching, contracts and overall financial side. However, if he isn't a team player and causing a rift between him, the organization, the HC (MLF) and GM (Gute), maybe Ed Policy will decide to go another route.

 

[gopkrs]

Really informative article, thanks for posting. It explains more to me about McCarthy's exit from Green Bay. Seems it wasn't just about the football being played on the field, but possibly more about the rift that had been created between Murphy/Packer organization, Russ Ball and McCarthy, due to how Ball was retained.

Seems that Murphy thought that Russ Ball was far too valuable for the organization to lose, so the creation of another position and a splitting up of Ted Thompsons duties was his answer. I guess Murphy felt retaining Ball in some shape or form was worth losing McCarthy over. In the process he seems to have watered down the decision making of all the positions, including HC.

I guess the jury is still kind of out on if it was a smart move or not. I do think Ball is a valuable asset to the Packers, with what he does on the number crunching, contracts and overall financial side. However, if he isn't a team player and causing a rift between him, the organization, the HC (MLF) and GM (Gute), maybe Ed Policy will decide to go another route.

So far none of the changes seem to affect anything as far as I can see. We are trading for the players we want, signing players and getting who the GM wants in the draft. Have not seen any consequences. Not that I really understand how it works.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So far none of the changes seem to affect anything as far as I can see.

I guess I am a firm believer of the Butterfly Effect. So I would say the changes have effected a lot of things, we just don't exactly know how. Whether those changes were good or bad things, we would only know if we could watch each and every possible outcome, after each and every possible variable was or wasn't changed.

Would we be a better or worse team if TT hadn't had health issues? If MM wasn't let go, if MLF wasn't hired, if Ball was given Gute's job, if...if...if???

We could possibly have 4 more Lombardi's, a 40 year old QB, TT viewed as a top 5 NFL GM of all time ......or maybe in the last 4 drafts, The Packers would have had the "privilege" of selecting first in every round?

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[gopkrs]

I guess I am a firm believer of the Butterfly Effect. So I would say the changes have effected a lot of things, we just don't exactly know how. Whether those changes were good or bad things, we would only know if we could watch each and every possible outcome, after each and every possible variable was or wasn't changed.

Would we be a better or worse team if TT hadn't had health issues? If MM wasn't let go, if MLF wasn't hired, if Ball was given Gute's job, if...if...if???

We could possibly have 4 more Lombardi's, a 40 year old QB, TT viewed as a top 5 NFL GM of all time ......or maybe in the last 4 drafts, The Packers would have had the "privilege" of selecting first in every round?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Yes, everything has an effect. And impossible to know all of it. I'm just happy where we are right now and don't know what, if anything, I would like to change in the structure of the organization. Truly clueless about what it actually is and it's effects.

 

[sschind]

I guess the jury is still kind of out on if it was a smart move or not. I do think Ball is a valuable asset to the Packers, with what he does on the number crunching, contracts and overall financial side. However, if he isn't a team player and causing a rift between him, the organization, the HC (MLF) and GM (Gute), maybe Ed Policy will decide to go another route.

I guess I am a firm believer of the Butterfly Effect. So I would say the changes have effected a lot of things, we just don't exactly know how. Whether those changes were good or bad things, we would only know if we could watch each and every possible outcome, after each and every possible variable was or wasn't changed.

Would we be a better or worse team if TT hadn't had health issues? If MM wasn't let go, if MLF wasn't hired, if Ball was given Gute's job, if...if...if???

We could possibly have 4 more Lombardi's, a 40 year old QB, TT viewed as a top 5 NFL GM of all time ......or maybe in the last 4 drafts, The Packers would have had the "privilege" of selecting first in every round?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Yes, everything has an effect. And impossible to know all of it. I'm just happy where we are right now and don't know what, if anything, I would like to change in the structure of the organization. Truly clueless about what it actually is and it's effects.

The only thing we can use to judge the way things are organized in Green Bay is the state of the team right now. Could we have 4 more SB trophies or we could have been picking top 5 for the past several years. I'm not sure you can judge a change like this in this short of an interval. There are still so many things that have remained the same. The same since the beginning I mean. Its possible that the mix of Gute/Ball/MLF is just such that it works fine. Who know if the same structure would work with 3 other personalities. Since we have no way of knowing I'd say, like gopkrs, I'm pretty happy with where we are now.

A young team that was on the cusp of an NFCC game appearance last season and a extremely legitimate chance to improve over the next few seasons. A GM that would appear to have hit his stride. I know its early but so far I'd say his last two drafts have been huge successes and even though his first 4 drafts may have been lacking from a numbers aspect he has added a few key components in each (Alexander, Gary, Jenkins and most importantly Love if he continues his upward trend) and Lastly a coach that seems to have a good grasp on how a team should work when not tied to the ego of a superstar player. I honestly think MLF was held back with Rodgers at the helm simply because, in all honesty, with a layer like that I think it is essential that you bend somewhat.

Sure I could be happier if we had a couple more SB trophies over the last several seasons but I could also be sadder if we had been missing the playoffs and drafting top 5 the past few years with little prospect of improvement.

The changes in the organizational structure have had effects. Whether they were good or bad its impossible to say but since we never fell entirely off the cliff and we are trending upward I'd have to say the sum of the effects was at worst neutral. After this season we may be looking at another change if Policy prefers a more traditional approach. However, since he is not an outsider to the organization, and since he has been present and participating throughout the process I am reasonably certain that there is a good chance the structure remains in place. At least until Ball decides to retire when I could see things going back to a more normal structure.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I guess I am a firm believer of the Butterfly Effect. So I would say the changes have effected a lot of things, we just don't exactly know how. Whether those changes were good or bad things, we would only know if we could watch each and every possible outcome, after each and every possible variable was or wasn't changed.

Would we be a better or worse team if TT hadn't had health issues? If MM wasn't let go, if MLF wasn't hired, if Ball was given Gute's job, if...if...if???

We could possibly have 4 more Lombardi's, a 40 year old QB, TT viewed as a top 5 NFL GM of all time ......or maybe in the last 4 drafts, The Packers would have had the "privilege" of selecting first in every round?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Well if you buy quantum physics and the multiverse all these things and more happened and are happening. All possible choices and outcomes happen at the same time.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The only thing we can use to judge the way things are organized in Green Bay is the state of the team right now. Could we have 4 more SB trophies or we could have been picking top 5 for the past several years. I'm not sure you can judge a change like this in this short of an interval. There are still so many things that have remained the same. The same since the beginning I mean. Its possible that the mix of Gute/Ball/MLF is just such that it works fine. Who know if the same structure would work with 3 other personalities. Since we have no way of knowing I'd say, like gopkrs, I'm pretty happy with where we are now.

A young team that was on the cusp of an NFCC game appearance last season and a extremely legitimate chance to improve over the next few seasons. A GM that would appear to have hit his stride. I know its early but so far I'd say his last two drafts have been huge successes and even though his first 4 drafts may have been lacking from a numbers aspect he has added a few key components in each (Alexander, Gary, Jenkins and most importantly Love if he continues his upward trend) and Lastly a coach that seems to have a good grasp on how a team should work when not tied to the ego of a superstar player. I honestly think MLF was held back with Rodgers at the helm simply because, in all honesty, with a layer like that I think it is essential that you bend somewhat.

Sure I could be happier if we had a couple more SB trophies over the last several seasons but I could also be sadder if we had been missing the playoffs and drafting top 5 the past few years with little prospect of improvement.

The changes in the organizational structure have had effects. Whether they were good or bad its impossible to say but since we never fell entirely off the cliff and we are trending upward I'd have to say the sum of the effects was at worst neutral. After this season we may be looking at another change if Policy prefers a more traditional approach. However, since he is not an outsider to the organization, and since he has been present and participating throughout the process I am reasonably certain that there is a good chance the structure remains in place. At least until Ball decides to retire when I could see things going back to a more normal structure.

Can you expand on this please? Ok, kidding.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well if you buy quantum physics and the multiverse all these things and more happened and are happening. All possible choices and outcomes happen at the same time.

So you are saying that every season, in another multiverse, the Packers win a Lombardi, the Bucks an NBA Championship, the Brewers a WS Pennant and every Badger Sports Program, a National Championship? Sign me up!

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[Pokerbrat2000]

Sure I could be happier if we had a couple more SB trophies over the last several seasons but I could also be sadder if we had been missing the playoffs and drafting top 5 the past few years with little prospect of improvement.

In a Nutshell, it is far better to be a Packer fan than having to get excited about the Bears or 29-30 other teams.

 

[Heyjoe4]

So you are saying that every season, in another multiverse, the Packers win a Lombardi, the Bucks an NBA Championship, the Brewers a WS Pennant and every Badger Sports Program, a National Championship? Sign me up!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Yep, it's not only a chance, it's reality. Well, realities, to be technical.

 

[Heyjoe4]

In a Nutshell, it is far better to be a Packer fan than having to get excited about the Bears or 29-30 other teams.

Well said by both of you. I have no desire to be a fan of a team that regularly owns one or more of picks 1 - 5. Looking at you, Chicago and Carolina.

 

[sschind]

Can you expand on this please? Ok, kidding.

I knew I could count on you. Or is "knew count you" better

 

[Thirteen Below]

Agree. I actually think the signing of Reggie White was the turning point of the last 30 years. Not just the most sought after FA at the time, but a black guy in his prime willing to go to GB. All the other guys you note played big roles. It was White's decision to come to GB that finally turned the tide of misery.

Right; right that was what I think i referred to as "the opening of the floodgates"... but the process that led to that began when Bob Harlan was elected president of the te\am, and immediately began making major structural and philosophical changes to the organization. The first important one was his hiring of Ron Wolf as General Manager, and Wolf's first major decision was to hire Mike Holmgren as head coach.

Those two men immediately began creating an entirely new organizational culture, which was already substatial enough in the first year to impress the Minister of Defense enough that he wanted to be a part of it. Had Judge Parris and his executive commiitee still been in place in 92, there would have been no Reggie. It was Harlan's complete overhaul of the organization that created an enviroment that top free agents wanted to be a part of.

Edit: When I did a little googling to make sure I had the dates and sequence of events exactly right, I found this article on Harlan that I hadn't seen before. I really found it interesting, so I thought I'd share it.

A View From the Top: Harlan Restructured Packers Organization Into NFL's Finest In 1996

www.packers.com

 

[Thirteen Below]

Yep, it's not only a chance, it's reality. Well, realities, to be technical.

I volunteer to relocate to whatever alternete universe features a Brett Favre with a 13:1 TD/INT ratio, and an Aaron Rodgers with a .909 postseason record rather than .454. The last 30 years of my life would have been so much more pleasant in such a world.

Or that alternet universe from "Everyhere Everything All At Once" where Michelle Yeoh was a dominatirix would be cool, too, I guess. It's not emottionally healhy to make my entire life about the Packers.

 

[gopkrs]

Right; right that was what I think i referred to as "the opening of the floodgates"... but the process that led to that began when Bob Harlan was elected president of the te\am, and immediately began making major structural and philosophical changes to the organization. The first important one was his hiring of Ron Wolf as General Manager, and Wolf's first major decision was to hire Mike Holmgren as head coach.

Those two men immediately began creating an entirely new organizational culture, which was already substatial enough in the first year to impress the Minister of Defense enough that he wanted to be a part of it. Had Judge Parris and his executive commiitee still been in place in 92, there would have been no Reggie. It was Harlan's complete overhaul of the organization that created an enviroment that top free agents wanted to be a part of.

Edit: When I did a little googling to make sure I had the dates and sequence of events exactly right, I found this article on Harlan that I hadn't seen before. I really found it interesting, so I thought I'd share it.

A View From the Top: Harlan Restructured Packers Organization Into NFL's Finest In 1996

www.packers.com

Very good read.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Right; right that was what I think i referred to as "the opening of the floodgates"... but the process that led to that began when Bob Harlan was elected president of the te\am, and immediately began making major structural and philosophical changes to the organization. The first important one was his hiring of Ron Wolf as General Manager, and Wolf's first major decision was to hire Mike Holmgren as head coach.

Those two men immediately began creating an entirely new organizational culture, which was already substatial enough in the first year to impress the Minister of Defense enough that he wanted to be a part of it. Had Judge Parris and his executive commiitee still been in place in 92, there would have been no Reggie. It was Harlan's complete overhaul of the organization that created an enviroment that top free agents wanted to be a part of.

Edit: When I did a little googling to make sure I had the dates and sequence of events exactly right, I found this article on Harlan that I hadn't seen before. I really found it interesting, so I thought I'd share it.

A View From the Top: Harlan Restructured Packers Organization Into NFL's Finest In 1996

www.packers.com

Agree completely 13 that Bob Harlan was the guy who changed things, and the order you have is right. Wolf and Holmgren and then Favre. Then White was the guy who made it ok for an NFL player to want to come to GB. Harlan was the best, easily the best executive to ever grace 1265, or maybe any franchise. And it's been 30 years of fabulous football since, and still going. I still remember the utter horror of Packer football in the 70s and 80s. It looked like the franchise was doomed. Thankfully, that changed.

(And White's free agency was huge news in the NFL because no one knew where he was gonna go. SI ran a cover story with a cut-out picture of White in a blank uniform - and the background consisted of the logos of all NFL team uniforms - I think. No one suspected GB, no one. I'm pretty sure Favre was already in town before White arrived and had something to do with recruiting him. Not sure about that part so maybe you or someone can verify.)