Don't expect the Packers to spend their first round pick on a cornerback

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm not convinced every top free agent CB wants to come to Green Bay.

Me either, in regards to "every". But it didn't stop Reggie White, Woodson, Peppers, Bennett, etc. If we start reading about ALL the FA's that don't want to play in GB, I will buy into that argument as to "why the Packers weren't able to sign Free Agents", I just don't see anything that tells me it's a credible argument.

I could counter with "I am not convinced that the Packers even contacted any top FA CB's"....but that too would have to be based on my jumping to an unsubstantiated conclusion.

 

[PackerDNA]

he wasn't always afraid to tackle. Maybe he was just hurt.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-...910/Packers-Damarious-Randall-makes-nice-stop

No sale. And if he was that hurt, he shouldn't of been out there.

 

[Mondio]

No sale. And if he was that hurt, he shouldn't of been out there.

Does that look like someone afraid of contact?

 

[PackerDNA]

he wasn't always afraid to tackle. Maybe he was just hurt.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-...910/Packers-Damarious-Randall-makes-nice-stop

Does that look like someone afraid of contact?

Now that was sweet. More please. There were, though, too many times when he looked like he wanted nothing to do with even mild contact.

 

[Dantés]

They weren't so good when healthy, either. And there was a lot of horrendous things about his techniques that had nothing to do with injury. There are flaws with Randall (not the least being he doesn't seem to like tackling). Didn't save it- wish I did- an article a week or two back in which a couple of scouts pointed out several flaws with him. Neither thought he'd amount to a very good CB.
But like many here are saying, we'll all find out soon enough.

Given the good starts to their careers and then the injuries last year, I don't understand all the certainty of conviction around these guys-- positive or negative. I see reasons for why last year could be an abberation, and yet I don't feel comfortable at all guaranteeing that they'll be good again. And I see reasons for why last year could be the new normal, but I don't understand resigning to that conclusion at all.

My best guess is that one will rebound and one won't. I'd be mildly surprised if neither did or if both did.

 

[Dantés]

he wasn't always afraid to tackle. Maybe he was just hurt.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-...910/Packers-Damarious-Randall-makes-nice-stop

Additionally, there weren't concerns over physicality or willingness to tackle coming out of college. Zierlein:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/damarious-randall?id=2552389

 

[PikeBadger]

They were both solid rookies. Then they were both hurt. It seems like some people are ready to bury them after injury marred 2nd seasons.

If they both improve their play from their rookie season, how good of players are they? Good enough to be considered the #2 CB and the #1 slot corner? Should Gunter be considered a slot corner?

 

[PackerDNA]

Given the good starts to their careers and then the injuries last year, I don't understand all the certainty of conviction around these guys-- positive or negative. I see reasons for why last year could be an abberation, and yet I don't feel comfortable at all guaranteeing that they'll be good again. And I see reasons for why last year could be the new normal, but I don't understand resigning to that conclusion at all.

My best guess is that one will rebound and one won't. I'd be mildly surprised if neither did or if both did.

Not really resigned to anything yet, Dantes. I very much feel, however, that neither will ever be better than a decent/fair to good #2 CB. I guess the part of your post that I bolded sums it up best for me.

 

[PackerDNA]

If they both improve their play from their rookie season, how good of players are they? Good enough to be considered the #2 CB and the #1 slot corner? Should Gunter be considered a slot corner?

I'd prefer that Gunter dusted off his college degree and found another line of work.

 

[PikeBadger]

Given the good starts to their careers and then the injuries last year, I don't understand all the certainty of conviction around these guys-- positive or negative. I see reasons for why last year could be an abberation, and yet I don't feel comfortable at all guaranteeing that they'll be good again. And I see reasons for why last year could be the new normal, but I don't understand resigning to that conclusion at all.

My best guess is that one will rebound and one won't. I'd be mildly surprised if neither did or if both did.

I try to have realistic expectations in regards to player development. In a group of 4 young guys, I'd expect one to stagnate or regress, 2 to make slow even progress to varying degrees and 1 to make a fairly large jump.
Imo, the Packers will benefit the most if the big jump comes from Kenny Clark. That would make life far easier for the entire front seven if he has to be consistently double teamed.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe Randall's feabile attempt to tackle Julio Jones in the NFCCG is still just too burned into my brain.

I agree, both Randall and Rollins could bounce back and have much better seasons and neither shouldn't be given the opportunity to do so, they both earned it with their rookie years. However, after watching what can happen to both of them and the Packer defense in 2016, I don't have a lot of confidence in it, nor would I only bring in House as insurance for the position to be much better if they don't improve. Once again, this is trial by fire IMO and until 1 or both of them can prove that they can walk on the coals, it's a big gamble to say "2016 was a fluke due to them being inured, all is well."

 

[PackerDNA]

In a group of 4 young guys, I'd expect one to stagnate or regress, 2 to make slow even progress to varying degrees and 1 to make a fairly large jump.

All the more reason to hedge your bets with things like free agency, trades, and so on.
Right, Ted? Ted? Ted?....TED!!!!

 

[PikeBadger]

Maybe Randall's feabile attempt to tackle Julio Jones in the NFCCG is still just too burned into my brain.

I agree, both Randall and Rollins could bounce back and have much better seasons and neither shouldn't be given the opportunity to do so, they both earned it with their rookie years. However, after watching what can happen to both of them and the Packer defense in 2016, I don't have a lot of confidence in it, nor would I only bring in House as insurance for the position to be much better if they don't improve. Once again, this is trial by fire IMO and until 1 or both of them can prove that they can walk on the coals, it's a big gamble to say "2016 was a fluke due to them being inured, all is well."

I guess I have about the exact same confidence with Randall and Rollins as I did with Adams last year. I was perplexed last year because prior to the 16 season, I had been singing Joe Whitt's praises. I still have faith that the guy can coach. I just want to believe that Randall, Rollins, Gunter, Goodson and Hawkins are willing students. Therein may lie the problem.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I guess I have about the exact same confidence with Randall and Rollins as I did with Adams last year. I was perplexed last year because prior to the 16 season, I had been singing Joe Whitt's praises. I still have faith that the guy can coach. I just want to believe that Randall, Rollins, Gunter, Goodson and Hawkins are willing students. Therein may lie the problem.

I'm not going to lie and say "I saw this coming", I think most of us were rock solid confident in Rollins and Randall after 2015. So what changed? Was it just the loss of Shields and the injuries to each player?

Could be one thing or a combination of any.....Whitt, Capers, talent, ability to learn and injuries. The first 4 should be something that can be closely monitored, but separating out which one(s) are or aren't failing, is the hard part.

 

[PikeBadger]

I'm not going to lie and say "I saw this coming", I think most of us were rock solid confident in Rollins and Randall after 2015. So what changed? Was it just the loss of Shields and the injuries to each player?

Could be one thing or a combination of any.....Whitt, Capers, talent, ability to learn and injuries. The first 4 should be something that can be closely monitored, but separating out which one(s) are or aren't failing, is the hard part.

For fans. The coaches know what is going on.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

For fans. The coaches know what is going on.

good to know....Super Bowl here we come!

 

[PikeBadger]

good to know....Super Bowl here we come!

What I meant was, the Head Coach knows who can coach, and the defensive coaches know who is coachable. The final 53 man roster will reflect that.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I expect one of House, Randall or Rollins to be as good a player by the end of the 18 season as Shields was in his prime.

Good one. Oh, you were serious about it??? Well, never mind.

Sounds a lot like the same approach TT took for the QB position, LT, RT, Guard, Center, WR, Safety etc.

None of those poditions were perceived weaknesses at any point though like cornerback is currently considered. In addition it's ludicrous to include safety in that list as it took Thompson three years to at least adequately replace Collins. Do you remember the team starting Jennings and McMillian at both spots???

But I get it, until the very best player at every position in the league is in this roster, There will always be reason to complain about Ted.

Nobody has ever posted anything close to it at all. A lot of fans are advocating for Thompson to address obvious positions of need in a timely fashion though. I guess that's a fair expectation of an NFL general manager.

Losing Shields hurts, I know and you can't just replace him. If that's your expectation, then I'm done with this entire thing, because you're very unrealistic.

While it's unrealistic to adequately replace a player like Shields diring the season that is completely wrong in the offseason. Signing House doesn't cut it though.

They were both solid rookies. Then they were both hurt. It seems like some people are ready to bury them after injury marred 2nd seasons.

On the other hand it seems like a forgone conclusion for a lot of posters both of them will significantly improve in 2017.

What was Davon House's 2015 PFF rating?

House received a 43.6 grade from PFF which would have ranked 102nd out of 112 cornerbacks if he had played enough snaps to qualify. Interestingly that was still good enough to be listed above Randall.

Should Gunter be considered a slot corner?

Gunter isn't agile enough to play in the slot.

 

[Spanky]

I would say the thread title is WRONG!!! But actually, the thread title is right, since Kevin King wasn't taken in the 1st round.

However, the premise is wrong. I suspected all along that TT would go CB with his first pick.