Defense under Barry

Voyageur

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From weeks 4-10, they gave up an average of 13.8 ppg. They have scuffled the last few weeks, but it's a long season. This is still a capable defense. With a week to rest up and heal along with the return of Alexander and possibly Z Smith, I expect them to bring their A-game. More focused and assignment sure.

This is a better defense than last year. Inside LB play is much improved, as is CB play. Kevin King isn't going to be starting this time. Gary has been one of the best rushers and Clark is still a beast in the middle. I am concerned about the regression of Savage. They need to get him coached up. This can be a championship defense.The talent is there.
I always liked the Fritz Shurmur defensive philosophy. Bend but don't break. I remember him saying once that the objective of the defense isn't to dominate the game, just make sure the other team doesn't score more points than the Packers do.

When you think about it, what more can you ask of them?
 

KiDcUdI

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Barry has been doing well. I don’t expect the team to move on at all regardless of the playoffs. I personally would take a swing at trying to get Vangio or Zimmer. I love their defenses and think as coaches they’re better than Barry.
 

milani

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I recognize that most of the starters were on the bench in the second half, but the defense just looked bad today. It really got torched. Totally unprepared for the wrinkles the Lions' offense used. Holes all across the secondary. It's concerning.
Yes. 5 different defenders lost Brown. The zone failed. Missing Campbell hurt. And other than Kenny King we still need that run stuffer up front. Burks has not done much this season. But overall I saw a defense that was not attacking, not aggressive, and trying not to get injured. In a meaningless game that can be forgotten. Do it again and heads explode. Notice a very unique statistic. Maybe good but maybe not so good. Packers had NO accepted penalties in the game. Now that would be great in most contests. But usually when there are no calls it means the team is not hitting, not playing aggressive, and playing like it is just a scrimmage.
 

Mondio

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I'd rather Fangio if that were the case. I'd pass on Zimmer right now
 

milani

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I always liked the Fritz Shurmur defensive philosophy. Bend but don't break. I remember him saying once that the objective of the defense isn't to dominate the game, just make sure the other team doesn't score more points than the Packers do.

When you think about it, what more can you ask of them?
Well he did use a lot of 3 man rushes I hated. The worst was on the Owen's Caught it Catch. He chose not to go with pressure. But Fritz had some super front fours that dominated the LOS and got to the QB a lot. Do his back 7 could do their thing.
 
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Good observations. I'm not in the slightest bit optimistic about him either. A QB arrives when he begins to control what happens on the field, and isn't just reacting to it.

That comfort is so obvious with Rodgers. He knows he's controlling the game.
I think that comfort comes with playing time and throwing interceptions all the while learning the game.
I heard coaches say the worst thing you can do to a young QB is pull him out of a game because of a few mistakes.

It takes time to season a good one to look comfortable out there like Rogers, Favre, and Starr.
 

pacmaniac

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So basically by switching from Pettine to Barry, we didn't improve, and we didn't get worse. Last season's defense finished ranked #13 in points allowed, and this season's defense finished ranked #13 in points allowed.
 
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I am so not a football expert. But that being said, nothing about Love gives me any optimism. To me he looks scared. Like he still doesn't know what to do. I think back about Flynn. Although he was not starting QB material. In certain situations he could handle himself. He certainly was comfortable in the Packers system. Love does not look comfortable. Just my .02.
None of us are experts, but we do have his history to compare.
One thing you’ll notice is that Matt Flynn has 3 full offseason program/preseason before making his first start vs. Love having 1 full off-season/preseason.
Also take a look at his early stats sometime and you will not be impressed by Flynn. He really started coming into his own 3rd season.
 

Voyageur

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None of us are experts, but we do have his history to compare.
One thing you’ll notice is that Matt Flynn has 3 full offseason program/preseason before making his first start vs. Love having 1 full off-season/preseason.
Also take a look at his early stats sometime and you will not be impressed by Flynn. He really started coming into his own 3rd season.
With all due respect, the problems Love faces does deal with time on the field. Preseason work has been so limited.
 

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The 37 points scored by the Lions Sunday were their highest point total of the season.
Just saying.
 

tynimiller

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The 37 points scored by the Lions Sunday were their highest point total of the season.
Just saying.

They'd put up 29 against Vikings, 30 against the Cardinals and 29 against the Seahawks just since December started....I fully expected nearly 30 against our depleted defense honestly....and that was before actually knowing what names were going to be sitting. I'd have placed a lot of money of them exceeding 30 if an option once I knew.
 
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So basically by switching from Pettine to Barry, we didn't improve, and we didn't get worse. Last season's defense finished ranked #13 in points allowed, and this season's defense finished ranked #13 in points allowed.
While that’s true, I think it could be also argued that Barry did the same with less.
Having 2 probowl caliber Defenders miss significant time is a big deal. Take any playoff caliber team and pull their best CB and best Edge and I’d be shocked if they didn’t regress.
Let’s pull Trevon Diggs and Demarcus Lawrence and see how that looks etc..
 

tynimiller

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While that’s true, I think it could be also argued that Barry did the same with less.
Having 2 probowl caliber Defenders miss significant time is a big deal. Take any playoff caliber team and pull their best CB and best Edge and I’d be shocked if they didn’t regress.

Lost his #1 Edge for the whole regular season
His #1 CB for the majority of regular season
A rookie became his "#1 CB"
Lost his then #3 Edge guy to a season ending injury

Numerous other losses as well and even did without his #2 Edge a few games and others.

What Barry managed to do in many ways should get as much praise as Stenavich
 
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Lost his #1 Edge for the whole regular season
His #1 CB for the majority of regular season
A rookie became his "#1 CB"
Lost his then #3 Edge guy to a season ending injury

Numerous other losses as well and even did without his #2 Edge a few games and others.

What Barry managed to do in many ways should get as much praise as Stenavich
Amen. We could’ve rushed players back, but I like our prudent approach of holding players out that were not vital. It’s very possible that we have Billy Turner, Randall Cobb, Josh Meyers, David Bakhtiari, J’aire Alexander and Za’darius Smith suited up in 2 weeks. That’s a massive haul of talent resources, regardless of some being limited or not full speed!
I’m going to venture and say that the Packers gain more resources for the playoffs than any other team in the league. That’s very, very formidable. Now they need to open the throttle and perform!!
 

gopkrs

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I always liked the Fritz Shurmur defensive philosophy. Bend but don't break. I remember him saying once that the objective of the defense isn't to dominate the game, just make sure the other team doesn't score more points than the Packers do.

When you think about it, what more can you ask of them?
I don't like that philosophy at all. staying on the field for long drives is not good whereas if you don't let their offense get in sink...that's a good thing and you have a strong D.
 

Voyageur

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I don't like that philosophy at all. staying on the field for long drives is not good whereas if you don't let their offense get in sink...that's a good thing and you have a strong D.
Your objective, as a coach, is to have long drives for your team, to reduce the time on the field for your defense. The objective of bend but don't break isn't giving the opposition more field time, but forcing them to make mistakes because you don't give them the big play. They need to work for every yard. It's constant pressure, but you don't risk your advantage.
 

gopkrs

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Your objective, as a coach, is to have long drives for your team, to reduce the time on the field for your defense. The objective of bend but don't break isn't giving the opposition more field time, but forcing them to make mistakes because you don't give them the big play. They need to work for every yard. It's constant pressure, but you don't risk your advantage.
Yes, I understand the reasoning and I don't like it. Teams that play bend but don't break imho do so because they are unable to play tough enough to stop the first downs. But by definition, it means give up the first downs which translates into long drives for them. Playing for turnovers through some kind of mistake is kind of ridiculous. Turnovers happen more often for a D that plays tough and tight. Again imho. Our D looked much better 6 or so games ago when they were swarming to the ball.
 

Voyageur

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Yes, I understand the reasoning and I don't like it. Teams that play bend but don't break imho do so because they are unable to play tough enough to stop the first downs. But by definition, it means give up the first downs which translates into long drives for them. Playing for turnovers through some kind of mistake is kind of ridiculous. Turnovers happen more often for a D that plays tough and tight. Again imho. Our D looked much better 6 or so games ago when they were swarming to the ball.
When our regular defenders get healthy they can step it up. Until then, too many weak links on the field that need to be protected.
 

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Couldn't you counter that the previous DC did not have Campbell or Douglas or Stokes or Mercilus? Asking for a friends dad.
 

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Couldn't you counter that the previous DC did not have Campbell or Douglas or Stokes or Mercilus? Asking for a friends dad.
Alexander> Stokes.
Zadarius + Gary > Gary and Mercillus for 4 games.
Campbell is definitely a net gain this year
Douglas is also a plus.

Hard to balance that equation… but I’d guess it’s about equal…. as was the result.

The positive ? … Alexander and Zadarius are likely to play in the Playoffs.
 

milani

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So basically by switching from Pettine to Barry, we didn't improve, and we didn't get worse. Last season's defense finished ranked #13 in points allowed, and this season's defense finished ranked #13 in points allowed.
Pretty accurate. I would still say we should look at the strength of schedule this season as opposed to last. I believe this one was hands down tougher. In addition compare our offensive numbers this year vs. last. The best defense is a good offense. Did our offense put up more points last year? Did our offense stay on the field more last year?
 

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The defense desperately needs Alexander and Smith to come back.

They're poor in the red zone, poor on 3rd down, and they don't force many punts. What they do well is force turnovers which can be hard to rely on in the playoffs.
 

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