Conservative 2nd Half Play Calling

[JK64]

They played to have the lead after the 4th quarter. If they knew there were to be a 5th, they'd play different. There are times I have planned for just over enough gas in my car to get to the refill station.

You may not admit it here, but I'd bet there was a time you did run out of gas, not different than the Packers losing a game they should have won.

 

[Mondio]

I have never run out of gas in almost 30 years of driving a car. I have run out in a push lawnmower however

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You may not admit it here, but I'd bet there was a time you did run out of gas, not different than the Packers losing a game they should have won.

Wait, the Packers lost the game?


Have you read post #69?

Your disdain for MM is obvious (post #75), but remember Dom Capers is the DC and also MM isn't the one out there playing in the secondary.

 

[Wildcatk23]

Im not just questioning this game. Its multiple games and years now.

 

[JK64]

Wait, the Packers lost the game?


Have you read post #69?

Your disdain for MM is obvious (post #75), but remember Dom Capers is the DC and also MM isn't the one out there playing in the secondary.

Yeah, I don't like MM. I think he costs the Packers 2 games a year on average including the playoffs. That defense Capers was running this week was a joke.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Im not just questioning this game. Its multiple games and years now.

Enlighten us, what games are you referring to and in regards to what? Bad coaching? Losing a lead? Fire Capers?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah, I don't like MM. I think he costs the Packers 2 games a year on average including the playoffs. That defense Capers was running this week was a joke.

Can I ask, did you like MM in the first half of the game?

 

[Packerlover]

I don't understand why MM went to such an ultra conservative game plan? Why would he restrict the offense when it was doing so well? Was he afraid Rodgers would throw 5 picks and blow the game? I am baffled by this.. The defense was missing 3 key players, they were in no position to be given the burden of winning the game. We should have scored at least 2 more td's in the second half. I don't see Belichik, Pete Carroll or any other big time coach doing what MM did.

I hope the Green Bay sports writers call him out on this..

 

[OldSchool101]

Criticizing the offensive play calling in the 2nd half is absolutely ridiculous. However if you want to criticize the defense, I will gladly jump on that wagon. I have had no qualms about blaming this defense for years and they completely suck again. Cross your fingers and hope that the secondary getting healthy will make a difference but I wouldn't hold your breath.

I beg to differ. If our secondary gets their mojo back, which I believe will happen if Shields and Morgan get healthy, we could be a top 5-10 D. I just read our run D is the best in our franchise so far since 1933.
What I do see missing are more takeaways. The Vikings lead the league in net takeaways at +8. That's nearly 3 extra possessions per contest.. and if they kept that ratio they would end with a +43 takeaways by playoffs.
Ironically, they just televised a documentary on Derrick Thomas the other night and one thing that really stuck out was he mastered the QB wrist chop and he averaged a forced fumble every 4 games he started.
Our chances of getting to a SB with a net ZERO Takeaways drops significantly. The best Defenses create opportunities for the Offense and we are missing that boat right now

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

IMO, the Packers coaches and players had a brilliant first half yesterday. If you take away the one play that Hawkins lost coverage on MJJ (who also made a pretty nice catch on that ball) for the 73 yard TD, it was about as much as you could ask for in the way of a complete half of football.

Some may not have liked the second half that saw the lead slowly dwindle away due to a softer defense and some mistakes made by various Packer players, but give the Lions credit, they stepped up and came out in the second half with some life. Before the game, we weren't worried about their injured defense, most of us were worried about their offense against our banged up defense and for the most part, that defense did pretty well when it counted.

Yes, the offense seemed to go into hibernation again during the second half, but not all of that can be put on MM. The offense didn't fully execute on 2 of the 4 times it had the ball and those resulted in 2 punts. 3rd time a FG and the 4th time, I would say they executed just fine, in running out the clock.

Maybe the most disappointing part of the second half for me was not having the game put completely away by the start of the 4th quarter. Allowing Hundley and some other players valuable game experience. But considering how banged up our defense was yesterday, I will take the win.

 

[longtimefan]

Then blame the defense. They didn't get the ball back.

Drive no. 1 got points. Drive no. 4 ran out the clock for the win.

Assuming you liked those two, there were literally two drives, two, that can even be subjected to scrutiny. Drive no. 2 was run-run-pass-punt.

Drive no.3 opened with a 10 yard sideline pass. Explain to me how that was conservative.

You are literally complaining about ONE drive. You are seeing what you want to see rather than what actually happened.

This needs to be seen by others and really comprehend the content

 

[Robert Mason]

They played to have the lead after the 4th quarter. If they knew there were to be a 5th, they'd play different. There are times I have planned for just over enough gas in my car to get to the refill station. If it were further away, I'd just manage it different to have more gas to get to it.

Maybe the NFL head office directs MM to play it this way to generate higher TV ratings ?

 

[Robert Mason]

I would rather drive around with a full tank of gas just in case the filling station is closed when I get there !

 

[Deleted member 6794]

MM has a 14-0 record in games Green Bay is leading by at least 21 at the half. He has a 97-14 record in games where he had a lead of at least a point heading into the 4th quarter. Not a big lead, not protecting a huge margin, just at least a point. His record in games where the Packers had a lead of at least 10+ points heading into the 4th quarter? 60-1.

Let's put that numbers into some perspective though. Since 2006 all teams have a combined record of 206-8 in games when leading at least by 21 points at halftime, 2019-427-4 when entering the fourth quarter with a lead as well as 1200-70-2 leading by at least 10 after three quarters.

While McCarthy's record is better than the overall numbers even less talented teams win most of the time understand these circumstances.

I don't understand why MM went to such an ultra conservative game plan? Why would he restrict the offense when it was doing so well? Was he afraid Rodgers would throw 5 picks and blow the game? I am baffled by this.. The defense was missing 3 key players, they were in no position to be given the burden of winning the game. We should have scored at least 2 more td's in the second half. I don't see Belichik, Pete Carroll or any other big time coach doing what MM did.

The Packers averaged 4.8 yards per carry in the second half, therefore not throwing the ball wasn't the reason the offense didn't score more points in the last 30 minutes. The reason for that was actually not executing on pass plays.

 

[Half Empty]

Can I ask, did you like MM in the first half of the game?

I sure did, but then again, that's what was supposed to happen. Heck, I was even considering adding a little extra to my half empty glass, and then the last 32 minutes of the game happened.

 

[gopkrs]

The average yardage per running play is a misleading statistic. If you run once for 15 yards and then on the next series go 2 on 1st down and then another 1 on 2nd down; you have a 6 yard average. But you are not moving the chains. The thing McCarthy has to do is pick the right times to run. We definitely need to pass to set up the run. We usually go nowhere when the defense is expecting us to run. Just running out the clock is not a viable plan unless you can definitely get the clock down below 30 seconds (imho) and they don't have timeouts left. I applaud Mike for the sideline attempt to Davis. Obviously a good call. And during the game with a big lead...don't even think about time left. Just keep em guessing. Go Pack Go!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The average yardage per running play is a misleading statistic. If you run once for 15 yards and then on the next series go 2 on 1st down and then another 1 on 2nd down; you have a 6 yard average. But you are not moving the chains. The thing McCarthy has to do is pick the right times to run. We definitely need to pass to set up the run. We usually go nowhere when the defense is expecting us to run. Just running out the clock is not a viable plan unless you can definitely get the clock down below 30 seconds (imho) and they don't have timeouts left. I applaud Mike for the sideline attempt to Davis. Obviously a good call. And during the game with a big lead...don't even think about time left. Just keep em guessing. Go Pack Go!

I have heard fans say this before "have to pick the right time to run". When is the right time to run? Hind site will tell you that its never the right time to run, when the run is unsuccessful. For years now I have never thought "man the Packers are just running the ball too much, they need to stop that". Even the great runners don't pick up 5+ yards every time they carry the ball, so yes, average yards/running play does matter when you look at the big picture. Those 15 yard carries can move chains, but you aren't going to get them on every run. I wasn't displeased at all with the game MM called on Sunday. The offensive stats weren't off the charts, but when players were executing, the offense looked really good.

The Packers successfully ran out the clock after the 2 minute warning by kneeling down, so not quite sure what you mean by "Just running out the clock is not a viable plan unless you can definitely get the clock down below 30 seconds". While its nice to be able to run the clock out towards the end of the game, with a few first downs, which the Packers did, it can also come back to bite you if you get too aggressive in trying to do so and either lose the ball or throw a few incompletions that run very little time off the clock.

 

[gopkrs]

Pokerbrat, it is not easy to pick the right time. But that is what Mc is paid to do. It should be a guessing game. It is just too often that I (and them) know he is gonna run. And our line does not look good on those plays.

 

[Robert Mason]

I don't understand why MM went to such an ultra conservative game plan? Why would he restrict the offense when it was doing so well? Was he afraid Rodgers would throw 5 picks and blow the game? I am baffled by this.. The defense was missing 3 key players, they were in no position to be given the burden of winning the game. We should have scored at least 2 more td's in the second half. I don't see Belichik, Pete Carroll or any other big time coach doing what MM did.

I hope the Green Bay sports writers call him out on this..

It's called "prevent defense" rather than give up quick big scoring plays they let them get little plays that will burn up time. On the offensive side they run the ball to keep the clock running, but it backfires if you don't get first downs. A prime example of this is the Championship game against the Seahawks where the Packers had a 12 point lead with five minutes remaining.

 

[sschind]

Then blame the defense. They didn't get the ball back.

Drive no. 1 got points. Drive no. 4 ran out the clock for the win.

Assuming you liked those two, there were literally two drives, two, that can even be subjected to scrutiny. Drive no. 2 was run-run-pass-punt.

Drive no.3 opened with a 10 yard sideline pass. Explain to me how that was conservative.

You are literally complaining about ONE drive. You are seeing what you want to see rather than what actually happened.

The first drive was moving along pretty well when it was killed by a penalty. It would have been 1st and 10 from the 13 if not for the holding penalty. As it turns out we get 3 points. We don't match the Lions opening drive but we get some back.

Second drive goes 20 yards before the sack (no gain actually) on 2nd down and an incomplete pass which from all accounts should have been caught so we punt. We ran off 3 minutes, not great but not a 3 and out either. 2 plays stopped the clock preventing eating up any more.

Third drive starts with a 10 yard pass attempt which is hardly conservative and it stops the clock. Then 2 runs net 8 yards and another clock stoppage and we punt. OK this was a bad drive.

Fourth drive starts bad with a 3rd and 8 but a Rodgers scramble gives us a first down and on the next play we throw a pass that gains us 9. Another nonconservative move if you ask me. This allows Lacy to seal it with another run and we run out the clock Nothing to complain about on this one I don't think.

That gives us 13 carries for 69 yards in the second half. This does not include Rodgers scrambles or the sack which presumably would have been passes or the 3 kneel downs. We attempted 5 passes completing 2 for 22 yards. Add in the other three most likely called passes and you have 8 pass plays. Add to this the fact that we got the ball with 32 seconds left in the first and we called 2 pass plays we ran 23 plays 13 runs and 10 passes with a 31-7 lead and 30:32 on the clock. I certainly don't think that mix is unreasonable with that sort of lead and I certainly wouldn't call it conservative. I'm not sure what there is to complain about about the offense.

 

[Mondio]

This entire thread is proof that most people, even Packer fans, don't know **** about football. All they know is if they covered their bets, or have a W to gloat about or an L to ***** about. In some cases the people ***** about W's and L's. This offense did not go "conservative" in the 2nd half, they didn't have any possessions, and when they did, not scoring points is disappointing, but penalties and dropped passes do not = conservative play calls.

Just like fielding half a defense of UDRFA's (yes I know i'm exaggerating) doesn't mean we played a prevent defense either. Plenty to fix with those guys on defense in the way of communication and execution, but neither of which had to do with a "prevent defense"

 

[sschind]

Detroit could have scored again....they could have won this game. IMO when you have lead at the half you clear that score from your mind and you play your game in the 3rd quarter. If you have a huge lead in the 4th then you can start to run out the clock but you absolutely have to administer a 3rd quarter kill shot or 2 before that.

IMO the only thing that stopped them from getting a TD on their only drive of the 3rd quarter was a holding penalty. That puts them up 38-17 when they get the ball back with 12:27 in the game. Is it OK then to try to run out the clock.

Would it have made a difference in your opinion if instead of Eddie Lacy gaining the first 30 yards of the the third quarter on the ground Rodgers would have gotten it through the air? You know, going for the throat by passing rather than the conservative runs.

 

[sschind]

Hey, I'm open to suggestion. Tell me how to turn a 28 point halftime lead into a 7 point win and make that sound good.

I can do it in 1 word and its a word you used, WIN.

 

[PackerDNA]

This entire thread is proof that most people, even Packer fans, don't know **** about football. All they know is if they covered their bets, or have a W to gloat about or an L to ***** about. In some cases the people ***** about W's and L's. This offense did not go "conservative" in the 2nd half, they didn't have any possessions, and when they did, not scoring points is disappointing, but penalties and dropped passes do not = conservative play calls.

Just like fielding half a defense of UDRFA's (yes I know i'm exaggerating) doesn't mean we played a prevent defense either. Plenty to fix with those guys on defense in the way of communication and execution, but neither of which had to do with a "prevent defense"

Not much of an exaggeration; 1/3 of the roster is UDFA.
Anybody notice that when the Lions got within a score (I said to a buddy, '3 run up the middles and punt') MM called a run up the middle. The fans booed; he came back with a pass the next play.

 

[sschind]

Some are blaming the offense for not having a better game. Others are blaming the defense.
Why can't it be both?
The offense, mostly thanx to McMuffin, didn't run up the score or pass and make 1st downs to keep the ball long enough.
The defense didn't keep the Lions from scoring.
Both sides do their jobs and we would have had a bigger cushion between scores.

The Packers had 10 3rd down plays and according to what I saw in the PBP they didn't call a single running play. I think two were scrambles by Rodgers but those were most likely called passes. I don't know how much harder they could have tried to pass to make 1st downs.