Biggest mistake of the offseason

Pokerbrat2000

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The real mistake was sending Julius peppers on his way without so much as even asking him if he was interested in continuing his career in GB. Had the front office done their due diligence they would have landed a huge bargain. 3.5 million for 10 sacks and I think it's fair to say those sacks would have been good for at least one more win while Rodgers was out. Likely 2 wins and even just one extra win would have changed everything

I felt the same, but then again I wanted Lacy back, so I guess if I had been making the decisions, the 2 would have washed out as 1 good, 1 bad. Of course, you always have to take into consideration that just because a player was good/bad with another team, he may not have had those same results playing for the Packers. Both Hyde and Hayward could be used for examples of that, can we be 100% sure they would have duplicated what they did elsewhere in Green Bay under Capers?
 

thequick12

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Yeah Lacy would have been much better for the Packers but he's really irrelevant because even if he was resigned the young guys still could of took his job. Peppers probably would have been slightly worse on the Packers defense but even 7 sacks would have been a game changer
 

thequick12

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I'm just baffled that just like with Charles woodson the front office just kicked a Hof to the crib without even investigating the situation. Shows a real lack of basic people skills which hopefully was just TT.
 

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Is it time to fire this thread back up again? :coffee:

I skimmed it a bit and I do have to say, that for all people who are now saying it was a mistake to let Hyde walk, go back and skim this thread. It reminds me a bit of the decision to let Casey Hayward walk, seemed logical at the time to most, but using hindsight as a measuring stick, some want to call TT an idiot for allowing it to happen.

What will happen this year with the Packers pending free agents?

I was among those who felt letting both go seemed reasonable at the time. However, it appears that we can be both right and wrong in that evaluation because of Packer staff. Both were, indeed, average, at best, but now apparently because they were used incorrectly.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I was among those who felt letting both go seemed reasonable at the time. However, it appears that we can be both right and wrong in that evaluation because of Packer staff. Both were, indeed, average, at best, but now apparently because they were used incorrectly.

I'm hoping that this was the case too and not just the case of a couple of young guys finally blooming after they left Green Bay. If Pettine can get more out of the current group of guys than Capers did, I think it will be pretty clear that the issue was more with Capers than it was with TT, but in reality, I think it was a combination of the two.
 

Mondio

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Not a single person even sniffed a hint than Julius Peppers was coming to GB until GB signed him, why do you guys think you know what happened on his way out now too?
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Not a single person even sniffed a hint than Julius Peppers was coming to GB until GB signed him, why do you guys think you know what happened on his way out now too?

I can try to find you some sources, but I do believe Peppers himself said that Green Bay never contacted him last season about resigning him, same with Hyde.
 
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Dantés

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I think the biggest mistake can be stated more generally than that they allowed Peppers to walk. They let the two edge players with the most snaps leave and didn’t have a plan to replace them outside of Kyler Fackrell and Jayrone Elliott.

They didn’t necessarily need to keep Peppers, but they sure as heck needed a plan to replace all his and Jones’ snaps. Eventually they added Brooks, but that fell in their lap. I’m not giving the FO credit for luck.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I think the biggest mistake can be stated more generally than that they allowed Peppers to walk. They let the two edge players with the most snaps leave and didn’t have a plan to replace them outside of Kyler Fackrell and Jayrone Elliott.

They didn’t necessarily need to keep Peppers, but they sure as heck needed a plan to replace all his and Jones’ snaps. Eventually they added Brooks, but that fell in their lap. I’m not giving the FO credit for luck.

For a position that was considered weak after 2016, that for sure was one of my biggest head scratchers during the offseason last year and than add to that, waiting until their 4th pick and drafting Vince Biegel, the lone pass rusher which they drafted.
 

GBkrzygrl

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I felt the same, but then again I wanted Lacy back, so I guess if I had been making the decisions, the 2 would have washed out as 1 good, 1 bad. Of course, you always have to take into consideration that just because a player was good/bad with another team, he may not have had those same results playing for the Packers. Both Hyde and Hayward could be used for examples of that, can we be 100% sure they would have duplicated what they did elsewhere in Green Bay under Capers?

I have always found it interesting that a lot of the players the Packers let go seem to do better on another team. Different scheme? Different teacher? Letting them go, got their attention?

I always like Hyde and was not surprised when he did well in Buffalo. His effort and his willingness to do what is asked of him has served him well.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I have always found it interesting that a lot of the players the Packers let go seem to do better on another team. Different scheme? Different teacher? Letting them go, got their attention?

I always like Hyde and was not surprised when he did well in Buffalo. His effort and his willingness to do what is asked of him has served him well.

I think we all notice the guys who do good...after they leave the Packers and play for another team. Human nature to look at "what did I miss out on?". There are plenty of guys that the Packers release each year that end up doing nothing for another team. Of course, a lot of those guys were also doing nothing in Green Bay ;)

The guys who do better probably do so because of what you said, new coach, scheme, team, etc.

Maybe someone can help me out here, but I am trying to think of the last player that we grabbed off waivers, in free agency, etc. who saw a marked improvement when they went from one team to the Packers?
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Dantés

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For a position that was considered weak after 2016, that for sure was one of my biggest head scratchers during the offseason last year and than add to that, waiting until their 4th pick and drafting Vince Biegel, the lone pass rusher which they drafted.

I didn’t get it at all. And I like Biegel and liked him before the draft and was happy they picked him. But they passed on a number of good prospects along the way too. But it was the lack of a veteran that was stupid. Yes, they had to pay Perry, but that didn’t preclude some legitimate help. But then again, this is a microcosm of the biggest weakness of the TT approach. He was good at a lot, but this issue that we’re discussing got him quite often.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Is it time to fire this thread back up again? :coffee:

I skimmed it a bit and I do have to say, that for all people who are now saying it was a mistake to let Hyde walk, go back and skim this thread. It reminds me a bit of the decision to let Casey Hayward walk, seemed logical at the time to most, but using hindsight as a measuring stick, some want to call TT an idiot for allowing it to happen.

What will happen this year with the Packers pending free agents?
I stand my original assessment that given Clinton-Dix and Burnett playing at a decent level, letting Hyde go rather spend the cap was the right thing to do. Drafting Jones was a nice add at the position even if it might be another year to see any impact from him.

Hyde may have played very well this season at safety, but he was a mediocre nickel back and would have been a mediocre nickel back again in 2017. You can't pay that kind of money for that level of performance.
 

Dantés

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I stand my original assessment that given Clinton-Dix and Burnett playing at a decent level, letting Hyde go rather spend the cap was the right thing to do. Drafting Jones was a nice add at the position even if it might be another year to see any impact from him.

Hyde may have played very well this season at safety, but he was a mediocre nickel back and would have been a mediocre nickel back again in 2017. You can't pay that kind of money for that level of performance.

He was also in a dramatically different system.

I wanted him back and thought it was a mistake to let him go, but if I’m being fair about it the change in scheme needs to be considered. I’m so glad Capers is gone.
 
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HardRightEdge

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He was also in a dramatically different system.

I wanted him back and thought it was a mistake to let him go, but if I’m being fair about it the change in scheme needs to be considered. I’m so glad Capers is gone.
Here's another way to look at it:

Let's say the Packers had signed Hyde to the same contract terms as he got from Buffalo. That's $10.8 million in aggregate cap for 2017 and 2018. Subtract about $1 million over two years for a minimum salary rookie he replaces on the roster. That's about $9.8 mil off the current cap.

That would take the Packers to a current cap space number of about $7 mil for the top 51 assuming a $178 million cap number for 2018 which is the high end of the projected range. Once one accounts for 52 and 53, the top 2 draft picks, the practice squad, and cap held in reserve for PUP/IR replacements (PUP/IR guys count against the cap), there's next to nothing left.

If at the time Hyde left one envisioned him as the 2017 nickel corner and the 2018 replacement for Morgan Burnett, the cheaper alternative in 2nd. round pick Jones looks like a prudent decision at the time. At this juncture, we still cannot say whether Jones over Hyde wasn't the best decision. That will depend on what they do with Burnett, whether Jones gets a high snap count, and what he does with those snaps.

When viewed in light of the cap savings with Jones over Hyde, consider Jimmy Garoppolo @ $27.5 million per year with 7 starts under his belt.

Does anybody think having Hyde on the roster last season would have gotten this team to the playoffs or will he be that difference maker in the coming season? I don't.

As for the whole matter of the Packers not even making an offer to Hyde or Peppers or anybody else past or future, one cannot make anything of it without being privy to the conversations that took place. Clearly, if one let a player test the market that's what they are going to do. Lets say Hyde, for example, gets that nice offer from Buffalo. The agent comes back to the Packers with it. The Packers decline to counter because it is meaningfully above the top of their range. Or the agent contacts the Packers first with an offer that is well above what the Packers are willing to pay and decline to respond until the market is tested. The player may have an interest in saying he didn't get an offer from his incumbent team so as not to look like it was just about the money. Anybody think Hyde would have come back if the Packers offered him half what Buffalo did to play nickel corner? And a GM doesn't do that any more than you would walk into a car dealership and offer half the sticker price.

You can argue that the Packers should have matched the offers to Hyde or Peppers or whoever, but claims they did not make an offer is a nothing burger without having been in on the phone calls.
 

Patriotplayer90

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Here's another way to look at it:

Let's say the Packers had signed Hyde to the same contract terms as he got from Buffalo. That's $10.8 million in aggregate cap for 2017 and 2018. Subtract about $1 million over two years for a minimum salary rookie he replaces on the roster. That's about $9.8 mil off the current cap.

That would take the Packers to a current cap space number of about $7 mil for the top 51 assuming a $178 million cap number for 2018 which is the high end of the projected range. Once one accounts for 52 and 53, the top 2 draft picks, the practice squad, and cap held in reserve for PUP/IR replacements (PUP/IR guys count against the cap), there's next to nothing left.

If at the time Hyde left one envisioned him as the 2017 nickel corner and the 2018 replacement for Morgan Burnett, the cheaper alternative in 2nd. round pick Jones looks like a prudent decision at the time. At this juncture, we still cannot say whether Jones over Hyde wasn't the best decision. That will depend on what they do with Burnett, whether Jones gets a high snap count, and what he does with those snaps.

When viewed in light of the cap savings with Jones over Hyde, consider Jimmy Garoppolo @ $27.5 million per year with 7 starts under his belt.

Does anybody think having Hyde on the roster last season would have gotten this team to the playoffs or will he be that difference maker in the coming season? I don't.

As for the whole matter of the Packers not even making an offer to Hyde or Peppers or anybody else past or future, one cannot make anything of it without being privy to the conversations that took place. Clearly, if one let a player test the market that's what they are going to do. Lets say Hyde, for example, gets that nice offer from Buffalo. The agent comes back to the Packers with it. The Packers decline to counter because it is meaningfully above the top of their range. Or the agent contacts the Packers first with an offer that is well above what the Packers are willing to pay and decline to respond until the market is tested. The player may have an interest in saying he didn't get an offer from his incumbent team so as not to look like it was just about the money. Anybody think Hyde would have come back if the Packers offered him half what Buffalo did to play nickel corner? And a GM doesn't do that any more than you would walk into a car dealership and offer half the sticker price.

You can argue that the Packers should have matched the offers to Hyde or Peppers or whoever, but claims they did not make an offer is a nothing burger without having been in on the phone calls.
The Hyde and Hayward situations were a disaster. Not only could we have All Pro caliber players now, but we could have been getting that performance out of them while they were here. Having A DC who could utilize the talent of his players as opposed to holding All Pro players back absolutely would have helped.
 
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HardRightEdge

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The Hyde and Hayward situations were a disaster. Not only could we have All Pro caliber players now, but we could have been getting that performance out of them while they were here. Having A DC who could utilize the talent of his players as opposed to holding All Pro players back absolutely would have helped.
You'd be over the cap.
 

thequick12

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Not a single person even sniffed a hint than Julius Peppers was coming to GB until GB signed him, why do you guys think you know what happened on his way out now too?

It's been reported by Jason Wilde and I trust him as a source simple as that. Also I'm sure I wasn't the only one who mentioned the Packers might land peppers as a street free agent. TT's mo to a tee it really wasn't very far fetched. And neither is the Packers not even so much as asking peppers if he was interested in returning. It's been reported by woodson himself I believe that before he was released he was never asked if he would take a pay cut or resign for less. Then the team proceeded to suffer thru years of md Jennings quality play at safety while woodson preformed at a game changing level for at least 2 of those seasons
 
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Mondio

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Lots of people mention lots and lots of names. That wasn't my point. Nobody had a clue Peppers was signing here, until he did. Same for Bennett last year and Evans and Kendricks. Wilde had no idea when he came and I'm sure he has zero knowledge of actually happened when he left.

Woodson went on to have a nice statistical season or 2 after leaving. His release was not a surprise as anybody watching could see he was declining in this defense.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Maybe if were weren't paying a 600 yard receiver over $12M, that wouldn't be an issue. That doesn't really help the argument that this is a well-managed team.
Who said it's been well managed? I've been saying for years that Thompson's been mediocre. However, that does not justify 20/20 hindsight.
 

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