Assessing the Roster

[Dantés]

It's hard to find fault with your analysis. I would add only a few comments:

QB: I have my doubts about AR playing out the rest of his contract. I don't think GB has to start looking for Rodgers' replacement next year, but by the 2021 NFL draft it might be time.

TE: There are a couple of decent FAs in Austin Hopper and Hunter Henry who could be worth signing. Eric Ebron had one great year in 2018 and not much else.

LB: Cory Littleton won't come cheap, but would it be worth going after him to the tune of somewhere around 4 years $54 mill? (That's what Shaq Thompson got)

WR: Draft over a FA. If the Packers want flat-out speed, Henry Ruggs or Jalen Reagor at the end of the 1st round. Justin Jefferson as a possible round 2 pick intrigues me a lot.

Yeah, I agree. If Rodgers doesn't demonstrate improvement and comfort in the offense in 2020, then I think that you start taking real swings on an heir apparent.

I would totally be down to sign Hooper or Henry. I'm a little bit skeptical that either one will get to the FA market, but if they do then that's great. Henry's injury history is significant, however he's the better player overall (and for this offense, in particular).

Cory Littleton would be a worthy target. I'm sure LA wants to keep him, however they might be priced out. They don't have a ton of cap space, nor do they have easy ways to get more. Plus they need to give Ramsey a mega deal. The Packers will have somewhere from 52-62M depending on where the cap ceiling lands and depending on what they do with Linsley.

I definitely agree with you that the draft should be the primary way of improving the offensive weapon issue, as this FA wide receiver class stinks, and the draft class is epic. The only exception is if they decide that they love Amari Cooper and decide to pursue him. I'm skeptical of that idea, however it is possible. Regardless, they need to find players who can make plays with the ball in their hands. LaFleur loves to call screens, but we have totally lacked the personnel for them to be effective.

 

[Dantés]

Dantés, awesome analysis! I thank you.

I would move the right side of the Offensive Line up the need list a bit.
1) Bulaga's great but he's had a ton of injuries. I would pay but, not overpay to keep him.
2) It's a fairly deep area in the draft.

Yeah, even if they bring Bulaga back they need to draft a tackle who has starting potential. This is not only because Bulaga has been injury prone, but also because Bakhtiari is going to be a free agent next offseason.

If they choose to let Bulaga go with plans to extend Bakhtiari instead, then right tackle becomes their #1 draft priority. This would be regrettable as it would really pigeonhole their top pick into that need.

 

[Dantés]

Woodson has stated that at the time of his contract that he did not want to come to Green Bay due to the perception that the city is less than cosmopolitan, but was forced to do so because the Packers were the only team to offer him a contract. Just 1 example and obviously it worked out in the end.

There have been surveys done to this end. Green Bay does not come up as either one of the preferred, nor one of the avoided situations. It, like New England, falls in a category of being polarizing. Free agents seem to either be really attracted to it or turned off by the idea of the market depending on their priorities.

It's pretty clear that if the Packers are willing to pay the going rate for free agents, they will come play in Green Bay (e.g. the Smith's, Amos, and Turner).

Surely there are guys who aren't interested in smaller town Wisconsin. But that's true of almost all NFL destinations.

 

[PackFan2]

MLF and Rodgers will need to do some soul searching to create their offense. At times I felt like there were three pieces (Shannon vs McVay vs McCarthy) of offense that did not mesh. They need to blend and synthesize these pieces this offseason. Did anyone else felt this way?

 

[Mondio]

MLF and Rodgers will need to do some soul searching to create their offense. At times I felt like there were three pieces (Shannon vs McVay vs McCarthy) of offense that did not mesh. They need to blend and synthesize these pieces this offseason. Did anyone else felt this way?

listening to end of season pressers it sounds like a lot of it was parts of the offense not able to grasp it and allow the team to get further into the playbook. Sounds like as far as installing the new offense, it was done with such baby steps there is a lot to do yet to get into next year even.

 

[PackFan2]

There have been surveys done to this end. Green Bay does not come up as either one of the preferred, nor one of the avoided situations. It, like New England, falls in a category of being polarizing. Free agents seem to either be really attracted to it or turned off by the idea of the market depending on their priorities.

Elephant in the room. An issue that everyone is aware of is the racial diversity of Green Bay (2010 Census has GB at almost 80% White) but I think the GB organization is doing a much better job supporting local businesses (black barbershops, markets etc.), school programs and communities. What GB has strongly behind its organization is the fact that Lombardi ignored prejudices and searched for best player regardless of race/creed and demand all players be treated equally. But yeah.. for some players the demography matters. Lastly, some folks just want to play in warmer weather lol.

 

[Calvin]

Draft: First 3 rounds in no particular order WR, MLB, TE. But they need to start, non of this 10 plays a game like Gary.

FA: Would love for GB to trade for John Ross of the Bengals, Talented WR, less than 6 feet tall, 4.2 40. Just needs a QB.

Defense:

Kevin King should not be playing CB. Think he could make the pro bowl as a free safety. Right now he is playing out of position.


Let Martinez walk, let him lead the lead in tackles 10 yards downfield on another team. We need someone who has hustle, instincts and most importantly knows how to shed a block.

 

[mradtke66]

Offensive Guard:

• Taylor needs to be let go for the cap savings.

Center:

• : Linsley could be a cap casualty, but if he is kept then the Packers don't need to do anything at center. If released, they will need to draft another option by the middle rounds to pair with Patrick.

One thing to be considered, if they cut or trade Linsley, keeping Taylor as your interior swing-man becomes possible. It's not the best use of cap, but it's not the worst either. He even survived at LT for one game.

For the veteran presence, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep him. IF they cut Linsley loose. If they keep Linsley, Taylor is likely done.

 

[Dantés]

One thing to be considered, if they cut or trade Linsley, keeping Taylor as your interior swing-man becomes possible. It's not the best use of cap, but it's not the worst either. He even survived at LT for one game.

For the veteran presence, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep him. IF they cut Linsley loose. If they keep Linsley, Taylor is likely done.

Seems like they locked up Lucas Patrick to be that interior swing player.

 

[Dantés]

Some UFA names that interest me at the positions of need (or potential need):

Wide Receiver: I'm not really excited about any of the FA wide receiver options. This is a spot that should be addressed in the draft, primarily. But they could also stand to add a veteran depth piece. Sharpe is a possession option that Petals has worked with in the past. Perriman and Dorsett would bring a speed element.

• Tajae Sharpe, Titans
• Breshad Perriman, Bucs
• Phillip Dorsett, Patriots

Tight End: There are only a couple attractive FA options and it's possible that neither make it to free agency. If these guys aren't out there to be had, they might as well just keep Lewis.

• Hunter Henry, Chargers
• Austin Hooper, Falcons

Offensive Tackle: If the Packers don't keep Bulaga, then right tackle becomes their top priority. There's only one guy slated to hit FA who I would want to replace him, but I don't he gets there. If he does, he should be target #1.

• Jack Conklin, Titans

Center: I don't really know why they would cut Linsley and then sign a veteran to a relatively expensive deal, unless it's maybe because someone out there has been circled as just a better fit for the system. There's only one guy who comes to mind as a potential.

• Connor McGovern, Broncos

Interior Defensive Line: I think the Packers need to add someone to the defensive front who can make disruptive plays behind the line of scrimmage. Clark is the beating heart of the DL, and Lowry plays his role, but they lack an upfield playmaker, which is what Adams was meant to be.

• Javon Hargrave, Steelers
• Shelby Harris, Broncos
• Maliek Collins, Cowboys
• Nick Williams, Bears
• Gerald McCoy, Panthers

Linebacker: This is a spot where I think the Packers could target a top of the market option. They absolutely need to upgrade this position. If they miss out, there are a few stop-gap options that are interesting.

• Cory Littleton, Rams
• Joe Schobert, Browns
• Mychal Kendricks, Seahawks
• Nick Kwiatkowski, Bears

Cornerback: With Alexander and King entrenched in starting roles, and Sullivan playing well enough to earn a role in 2020, I think the Packers need to target value and competition moreso than high end starters. So the following are more modest ideas (sleepers; buy low; older players).

• Kendall Fuller, Chiefs
• Chris Harris Jr, Broncos
• Mackensie Alexander, Vikings

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I've seen it happen for 50 years. That's all I'm saying. Never been a free agent haven for the majority of the time.

Thompson reluctance of signing free agents created the impression that most veterans aren't interested in playing for the Packers. The team being able to sign Reggie White as well as bringing in four starters last offseason should work as evidence for the contrary though.

4. OL - I think Billy Turner played well and he's under contract. Hope he improves but also would like to see someone push him/depth.

The Packers will definitely keep Turner for next season as releasing him wouldn't result in significant cap savings ($850K).

Draft: First 3 rounds in no particular order WR, MLB, TE. But they need to start, non of this 10 plays a game like Gary.

FA: Would love for GB to trade for John Ross of the Bengals, Talented WR, less than 6 feet tall, 4.2 40. Just needs a QB.

Defense:

Kevin King should not be playing CB. Think he could make the pro bowl as a free safety. Right now he is playing out of position.

Unfortunately a rookie tight end will take some time to develop into a decent starter at the NFL level. The Packers should pass on Ross and keep King at cornerback.

 

[mradtke66]

Seems like they locked up Lucas Patrick to be that interior swing player.

You missed the part where I tied keeping Taylor to cutting Linsley.

Cut Linsley and Patrick is your presumed starting center. Taylor becomes you swing man.

 

[tynimiller]

Seems like they locked up Lucas Patrick to be that interior swing player.

Don't disagree this could work out to be the case, but I think Patrick will be the starting center in 2020 for us with Linsley cut being an immense savings cap wise and makes keeping Taylor as the swing guy (with ample starting experience) at his price digestible for sure. OR we could even cut both, but I don't see that. I sense Taylor stays as swing, Bulaga is resigned and Linsley cut.

 

[tynimiller]

• Tajae Sharpe, Titans

Tajae has intrigued me for sometime. Part of me senses he will dissolve away, but dangit if I also sense there could be something there for sure. However, I thought Grant was going to contribute as a possession receiver for us when we signed him....and was autrociously wrong there

 

[LetzBreel]

Thompson reluctance of signing free agents created the impression that most veterans aren't interested in playing for the Packers. The team being able to sign Reggie White as well as bringing in four starters last offseason should work as evidence for the contrary though.



The Packers will definitely keep Turner for next season as releasing him wouldn't result in significant cap savings ($850K).



Unfortunately a rookie tight end will take some time to develop into a decent starter at the NFL level. The Packers should pass on Ross and keep King at cornerback.

The Packers signed Reggie White in 1993 - 27 years ago. Damn, time flies. Including the 4 starters you also mentioned last year, that's 5 FA in 27 years. I would be interested in knowing where that ranks with the rest of the league.

 

[tynimiller]

The Packers signed Reggie White in 1993 - 27 years ago. Damn, time flies. Including the 4 starters you also mentioned last year, that's 5 FA in 27 years. I would be interested in knowing where that ranks with the rest of the league.

Hang on...you believe we've only had 5 FAs in 27 years? Or you only think we have signed 5 starting FAs in 27 years?

Both of those are not true btw...it isn't even true over the last 5 years, let alone 27.

 

[LetzBreel]

Hang on...you believe we've only had 5 FAs in 27 years? Or you only think we have signed 5 starting FAs in 27 years?

Both of those are not true btw...it isn't even true over the last 5 years, let alone 27.

Clarification: FA's that ended up being solid or even outstanding additions. You tell me. I don't know and that's why I'm asking.

 

[tynimiller]

Here's a few that come to mind that were starters for us...some are even in our personal team HoF, while a few others are or will be even in the NFL HoF

Reggie White, Charles Woodson, Willie Wood, Frank Winters, Santana Dotson, Ryan Pickett, Desmond Howard, Paul Coffman, Gerry Ellis, Tramon Williams, Don Beebe, Andre Rison, Mark Murphy, The Smith Brothers, Amos, Jimmy Graham, Jared Cook, Morrison...

 

[LetzBreel]

Here's a few that come to mind that were starters for us...some are even in our personal team HoF, while a few others are or will be even in the NFL HoF

Reggie White, Charles Woodson, Willie Wood, Frank Winters, Santana Dotson, Ryan Pickett, Desmond Howard, Paul Coffman, Gerry Ellis, Tramon Williams, Don Beebe, Andre Rison, Mark Murphy, The Smith Brothers, Amos, Jimmy Graham, Jared Cook, Morrison...

Another dumb question coming, is that okay? Was there such a thing as a FA in 70's and 80's? All great names btw. Frankie "bag a donuts" Winters was one of my favorites and I had no idea he was a FA. Thanks for the enlightenment.

 

[Dantés]

You missed the part where I tied keeping Taylor to cutting Linsley.

Cut Linsley and Patrick is your presumed starting center. Taylor becomes you swing man.

I didn't. But if they cut Linsley, then it's almost certain that they'd draft another center to pair with Patrick. I don't think they'd put all their eggs in that one basket.

 

[tynimiller]

Another dumb question coming, is that okay? Was there such a thing as a FA in 70's and 80's? All great names btw. Frankie "bag a donuts" Winters was one of my favorites and I had no idea he was a FA. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Whether or not it is okay is all relative to the roster they are added to. Arguably there are more out there I'm spacing on that were starters or immediate depth guys that saw playing time. Doing what we did last year in FAs not only isn't realistic year to year but it will financially destroy your team eventually. Gute knew he need to force the pendulum to swing quickly, the Rodgers window is closing and he wants to do all he could to ensure we have a chance; last year's FA did that.

Now saying that I'm not counting us out of the hunt for perhaps one or maybe two starters this offseason in FA. If a guy like Littleton truly can be had or a true #2 WR or stud TE begins to look possible I bet Gute will make one or both happen. Even if that means cutting a guy like Linsley to afford it. Gute has some options to develop cash for the push, Graham and Linsley alone get you over 15 Million if memory serves saved this next year....

Factor in a few other fiscal cuts or move ons from (Crosby may be one) and Gute does have the money to make it work...but to be fair we will be too far stretched in 3 or 4 years....however I sense Gute knows that is about the re-boot window of time post-Rodgers and isn't uncomfortable entirely doing that.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Some UFA names that interest me at the positions of need (or potential need):

Wide Receiver: I'm not really excited about any of the FA wide receiver options. This is a spot that should be addressed in the draft, primarily. But they could also stand to add a veteran depth piece. Sharpe is a possession option that Petals has worked with in the past. Perriman and Dorsett would bring a speed element.

• Tajae Sharpe, Titans
• Breshad Perriman, Bucs
• Phillip Dorsett, Patriots

Tight End: There are only a couple attractive FA options and it's possible that neither make it to free agency. If these guys aren't out there to be had, they might as well just keep Lewis.

• Hunter Henry, Chargers
• Austin Hooper, Falcons

Interior Defensive Line: I think the Packers need to add someone to the defensive front who can make disruptive plays behind the line of scrimmage. Clark is the beating heart of the DL, and Lowry plays his role, but they lack an upfield playmaker, which is what Adams was meant to be.

• Javon Hargrave, Steelers
• Shelby Harris, Broncos
• Maliek Collins, Cowboys
• Nick Williams, Bears
• Gerald McCoy, Panthers

Linebacker: This is a spot where I think the Packers could target a top of the market option. They absolutely need to upgrade this position. If they miss out, there are a few stop-gap options that are interesting.

• Cory Littleton, Rams
• Joe Schobert, Browns
• Mychal Kendricks, Seahawks
• Nick Kwiatkowski, Bears

I would add Robby Anderson to the list at WR; young and a tremendous downfield threat that has been held back by awful QBs. He'd be more expensive than the three you mentioned (though not as expensive as the more notable free agent WRs) but would help create a very dangerous WR duo with Adams. My concern with relying on the draft to improve the receiving corps is that it's still pretty difficult for a rookie WR to make a major impact on an offense in their first year.

TEs - I'm really hoping they go after Henry. I think he could be one of the best receiving TEs in the NFL with a good QB and, with it looking like Rivers might be leaving San Diego he might be available.

Interior dline - With the 3-4 alignment the Packers should really be looking to find DEs since Clark is the tackle in that alignment (and while Clark is amazing rushing the QB, he's not all that great stopping the run). There aren't many 3-4 DEs in the free agent market right now that look like they could be an upgrade at an affordable price. Arik Armstead would be terrrific, obviously, but he's gonne be EXPENSIVE.

Linebacker - This one is interesting because Littleton would be great for covering TEs but he's terrible against the run. If the Packers find a way to upgrade the dline then he'd be a great signing. If the Packers can't do that though, they would still have major issues against the run with Littleton at ILB. I'm still all for the Packers signing him (while he's not good against the run he's still better than Goodson or Martinez) but the Packers would need to find a way to improve the dline.

Overall, I think I'd rather the Packers use the draft to improve at dline and linebacker while using free agency to improve the passing game options.

 

[mradtke66]

I didn't. But if they cut Linsley, then it's almost certain that they'd draft another center to pair with Patrick. I don't think they'd put all their eggs in that one basket.

They wouldn't be--Taylor becomes your swing man.

It wouldn't preclude them also drafting a center, and perhaps they do that, but keeping Taylor as insurance if they lose Linsley isn't crazy.

 

[mradtke66]

Interior dline - With the 3-4 alignment the Packers should really be looking to find DEs since Clark is the tackle in that alignment (and while Clark is amazing rushing the QB, he's not all that great stopping the run). There aren't many 3-4 DEs in the free agent market right now that look like they could be an upgrade at an affordable price. Arik Armstead would be terrrific, obviously, but he's gonne be EXPENSIVE.

There would be value in getting a NT though.

In nickel, we still roll with 2 DTs. A second, better complement to Clark would have value.

In base, a NT that would allow Clark to play RDE and align in a 3T might allow him to become even more of an attacker.

If Clark's best position it NT regardless, having a run plugger would allow Clark to rest between the 20s on run downs.

 

[Dantés]

They wouldn't be--Taylor becomes your swing man.

It wouldn't preclude them also drafting a center, and perhaps they do that, but keeping Taylor as insurance if they lose Linsley isn't crazy.

I think they could find a much younger, cheaper option who could more legitimately be viewed as a center.