All Sitton & Lang & OL threads merged

[PikeBadger]

I don't think either Sitton or Daniels would have been picked earlier if the Packers didn't have the compensation picks as the team obviously had other players ranked higher on their board. It's possible both players would have been available later in the draft but there's no guarantee.

I agree that fourth round selections are a crap shoot but therefore accumulating several picks is a definite advantage.

Agree, it gives you more room for error of which there will always be some picks that don't work out well because of various reasons. Generally, more is better. One of my biggest complaints about Thompson is that I feel he missed a couple of opportunities to create legacy picks that would be traded into a future year for a higher pick. I think he possibly could have garnered a couple of high second round or possibly even an extra first round pick possibly. It's tough picking from 24-32 in every round every year. Would be nice having a couple of extra long term magic bullets in the chamber.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Personally, I'm not looking at this from a player talent standpoint, I leave that up to the coaches and Packer Management, they know way more then me. I'm looking at it from a logical "bean counter" standpoint. Bottom line for me, the Packers could have accomplished the same results and exited with a draft pick and Sitton playing somewhere outside of our division and they didn't. Timing and execution of this move just don't add up for me the "casual fan". So unless there is a piece missing, which would be something that just happened outside of the play on the field, I feel the Packers were sleeping at the wheel on this one. Player talent and evaluations for starters like Sitton should have been thought out way ahead of the last day of cuts.

 

[PackerDNA]

I'd like to see/hear somebody grow a pair.
Let's start with MM; How about something like,"Ask Ted. I'm tired of him pulling crap like this, then taking a powder and leaving me up here to take the heat for it".
Or instead of some mealy mouthed vague attempt at an explanation like "there was more than one reason"; like what Mike?
Or the man behind the curtain , TT. ......ah, to hell with it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd like to see/hear somebody grow a pair.
Let's start with MM; How about something like,"Ask Ted. I'm tired of him pulling crap like this, then taking a powder and leaving me up here to take the heat for it".
Or instead of some mealy mouthed vague attempt at an explanation like "there was more than one reason"; like what Mike?
Or the man behind the curtain , TT. ......ah, to hell with it.

Wait.....are you really saying.....

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[rodell330]

I'm starting to think Sitton either slapped TT during contract discussions..or cussed him out haha. I've been trying to wrap my brain around this all week! something had to happen. If this was Bulaga or Bahk i don't think i'd really care to much..but this was our best linemen folks. If his back and foot is really that jacked up then how come he playe din the preseason and was was projected to start week 1? Not buying the injury thing.

 

[PackerDNA]

Wait.....are you really saying.....

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Works for me. Man, I love that movie.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Anyway, if Sitton is so elite, why did the Packers fail so often on third and short & forth and short? Did they never run behind him?

That number includes passing plays as well on which the Packers struggled mightily concerting only five out of 20 (25%). The team converted 59.4% of short yardage plays on third and fourth down running the football. While that isn't great by any means (26th in the league) Sitton performed on a high level blocking for the run with mostly the tackles, running backs and tight ends struggling.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Works for me. Man, I love that movie.

Strangely I do remember a lot of Green and Gold in that room where the Wizard lives....you don't think?

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[rodell330]

Strangely I do remember a lot of Green and Gold in that room where the Wizard lives....you don't think?

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That TT gets his advice from the same giant machine the Wizard of OZ did? lol i can totally see that hahaha

 

[PackerDNA]

Amazing how Sitton is gradually slipping from one of the best guards in the league to not so hot after all.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Amazing how Sitton is gradually slipping from one of the best guards in the league to not so hot after all.

Well of course....he's a Bear isn't he? Oh wait.....you meant BEFORE he became a Bear?

 

[PFanCan]

Amazing how Sitton is gradually slipping from one of the best guards in the league to not so hot after all.

Well, he is a Bear now. He must suck.

 

[PFanCan]

Well of course....he's a Bear isn't he? Oh wait.....you meant BEFORE he became a Bear?

Ah, you beat me to the punch! Great minds think alike.

 

[sschind]

The Packers were in a perfect situation at left guard with Sitton being under contract for this season. Unfortunately the team's general manager felt the need for whatever reason to release an All-Pro player without any necessity.

Obviously the team's general manager felt it was necessary to release Sitton or he wouldn't have done it. Just because you say there was no necessity does not mean that is the case.

 

[PikeBadger]

It seems opinions vary with regard to whether or not Sitton's play declined in 2015:


While Sitton's play declined somewhat in 2015, he's still among the better guards in the league, and should garner significant attention on the free-agent market.

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1092464

Despite his consistency, Sitton is at the age where you can expect to see a decline in play, and that decline may have already started in 2015. He allowed 23 pressures last season, the most he has surrendered since 2009. He allowed just one pressure over the first five games of the season, and then at least one pressure in every game after that. He was penalized 10 times, which was a career-high, and his run-blocking wasn’t as good as he’s produced in the past. Even though Sitton was better in past seasons than in 2015, he remained a top-six guard—but his play might be a sign of things to come.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pr...d-on-josh-sitton-t-j-lang-or-david-bakhtiari/

While Sitton’s play declined somewhat in 2015, he’s still among the better guards in the league.

http://news--site.com/2016/09/03/report-packers-planning-to-cut-all-pro-guard-josh-sitton/


Make of that what you will.

My eyes saw the same thing. I still don't think he played as well last year as he has in the past. I yelled at him more last year than I ever have.

 

[sschind]

I am sure in his mind there was a necessity. He just didn't bother to tell it to more than a very select few out of the 7,349,347,988 people on the planet at the time (http://www.census.gov/popclock/)

I think that is what has some people upset. They feel entitled to be in that select few. In their own minds what they think is what matters and is all that counts.

 

[sschind]

going to put this in other terms. Who would set a decent case of beer out on the curb if they could have sold this case to their neighbors? This may have once been your favorite tasting beers, but your taste buds have changed or you saw an ant or two crawling around it. You know someone else will gladly pay a discounted price for it, but you let it sit. Maybe you let that case sit around too long and you wake up one day and it's just crawling with ants and you don't want those ants spreading to the rest of the pantry, so you toss it on the curb to let your neighbors take it for free. Personally, once I saw the first ant and knew I wasn't going to keep that beer, I would have found a suitable buyer for it.

Who throws away beer just because there were ants on it? Wash it off and drink up.

 

[sschind]

Seems to me we're at the point where semantics rears its ugly head. I don't think anyone said 'crazy' or 'no reason', it's more a matter of probably for a reason that was part emotion and one with which we probably wouldn't agree. We certainly don't know anything, and we probably never will, and I agree with 'something' happened - just not the something many of feel justifies the move.

I didn't mean to imply that I think a lot more of this would follow. I was referring to your comment about a lack of history and noting that, whether something is a unique event or becomes routine, the first time it happens, it comes from a background of no history. Again, sure, something happened, and while the lack of evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it does mean that we either speculate or shut up.

The bottom line is that for whatever reason Ted felt the need to cut Sitton. His explanation was GM speak for I'm the only one who knows the real reason why I did it and I may or may not have shared that reason with anyone and that includes Josh Sitton so until such time as I come forward and tell you why I cut him everything else is just speculation.

 

[PikeBadger]

One of the things I don't understand is why they cut him at the last minute. I maintain that something happened to preempt the cut.

You know how Thompson is, always holds on to his vets & guys he drafted too long. He should have traded him during the draft in May like I suggested. (Partially tic)

 

[PikeBadger]

I'd like to see/hear somebody grow a pair.
Let's start with MM; How about something like,"Ask Ted. I'm tired of him pulling crap like this, then taking a powder and leaving me up here to take the heat for it".
Or instead of some mealy mouthed vague attempt at an explanation like "there was more than one reason"; like what Mike?
Or the man behind the curtain , TT. ......ah, to hell with it.

I think that is what has some people upset. They feel entitled to be in that select few. In their own minds what they think is what matters and is all that counts.

Ted doesn't talk. Many, many people don't like that simple fact. When Ted speaks to the press, people should pay attention. He will divulge something during just about every press conference. If you feel you can believe what he says, you can put those pieces together and get a very basic understanding of how they conduct business.

 

[sschind]

On top of the 49 sacks allowed by the Packers' overrated OL in 2015, the Packers finished 31 in the NFL in 2015 in short yardage with a 46.2% conversion rate. Only IND, STL and TEN averaged fewer than the Packers' paltry 2.4 yds per attempt in short yardage.

Here's the stats from Football Outsiders (hard to read, I know, so here's the link: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/2015-short-yardage-results)


2015 Offense: Short-Yardage Plays
Rk Team Plays 1st Downs Pct. Yds/Play Rk DVOA Rk Pass% Rk
1 PHI 50 41 82.0% 4.9 15 33.1% 5 34.0% 29
2 NO 43 34 79.1% 6.9 3 45.0% 2 34.9% 26
3 CLE 52 37 71.2% 7.0 2 44.9% 3 69.2% 1
4 SEA 52 37 71.2% 4.9 14 12.4% 11 36.5% 24
5 CAR 48 34 70.8% 5.0 13 30.2% 6 31.3% 32
6 ATL 54 38 70.4% 3.5 24 2.5% 15 55.6% 7
7 HOU 43 30 69.8% 5.8 8 22.7% 8 48.8% 12
8 MIN 31 21 67.7% 7.2 1 52.5% 1 48.4% 13
9 CHI 47 31 66.0% 6.4 6 34.0% 4 44.7% 19
10 SF 44 29 65.9% 5.5 10 5.6% 13 61.4% 4
11 OAK 44 29 65.9% 3.7 23 5.4% 14 45.5% 18
12 NE 55 36 65.5% 4.1 21 9.7% 12 41.8% 22
13 DET 52 34 65.4% 5.1 12 1.7% 16 67.3% 2
14 SD 51 33 64.7% 2.9 28 -23.6% 30 43.1% 21
15 WAS 50 32 64.0% 4.1 19 -7.5% 23 50.0% 11
16 KC 41 26 63.4% 4.7 16 1.3% 17 34.1% 27
17 TB 43 27 62.8% 6.5 5 -2.1% 19 46.5% 14
18 ARI 48 30 62.5% 5.6 9 21.4% 9 54.2% 8
19 IND 56 34 60.7% 2.3 30 -9.4% 24 53.6% 9
20 CIN 53 32 60.4% 6.5 4 29.2% 7 34.0% 30
21 NYJ 50 30 60.0% 3.9 22 -6.6% 22 46.0% 16
22 DAL 37 22 59.5% 4.1 20 -0.1% 18 35.1% 25
23 BUF 44 26 59.1% 3.0 27 -6.3% 21 34.1% 28
24 JAC 35 20 57.1% 3.4 26 -21.5% 28 45.7% 17
25 PIT 49 27 55.1% 6.1 7 15.1% 10 61.2% 5
26 STL 28 15 53.6% 2.3 31 -10.4% 25 32.1% 31
27 NYG 58 31 53.4% 4.4 18 -14.1% 27 56.9% 6
28 MIA 36 19 52.8% 4.6 17 -23.0% 29 44.4% 20
29 BAL 65 34 52.3% 3.4 25 -3.5% 20 46.2% 15
30 DEN 43 22 51.2% 5.5 11 -13.7% 26 51.2% 10
31 GB 52 24 46.2% 2.4 29 -32.7% 31 38.5% 23
32 TEN 43 17 39.5% 1.8 32 -42.3% 32 62.8% 3

Anyway, if Sitton is so elite, why did the Packers fail so often on third and short & forth and short? Did they never run behind him?

The results last year were atrocious, TT and MM had to start asking what are they getting for their money. And if the answer is not much, they had to start cutting the dead wood and rebuilding this OL with younger players.

I really wanted to respond with something like Never mind all that Scotland, who is Ted going to dump next but you do bring up a good point. I guess there is more to you than superior prognosticating abilities.

The Packers were bad in short yardage last year. I'm not saying that was Sitton's fault but I do recall reading that his run blocking left something to be desired (although his pass blocking was stellar) Perhaps the Packers are determined to change that short yardage ranking this year. If so one way to do it would be to improve your line's ability to run block. If that is the case replacing Sitton, whose ability to run block is suspect, with Taylor, who the coaches think can run block better makes sense.

If this is the case, Taylor is better at run blocking than Sitton, we can only hope the gain we get in that area is not wiped out by the loss we experience in some other area (pass blocking for example)

We shall see, or maybe we won't, if this works out.

 

[JBlood]

TT and MM had to start asking what are they getting for their money

Agree with your post. But I would add Campen to the list of those being asked by the Packers' front office. The only line above average he's fielded ( other than the one he inherited from Beightol) was in 2014. Last year demonstrated how shallow the depth of that line was; and very likely is today. It seems highly unlikely that this move will be advantageous to the football team's chance of improving this year.

 

[sschind]

Amazing how Sitton is gradually slipping from one of the best guards in the league to not so hot after all.

He did sign with the Bears so I guess it was inevitable. What might be more amazing is the gradual slide. Usually when something like this happens the guy goes from one of the best to one of the worst over night.


Edit: gotta learn to read all the posts before responding.

 

[Packerlifer]

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2...n-release-about-more-than-just-money-nfl-2016

 

[7thFloorRA]

Very interesting and makes senses. I bet Lang is going to follow him out the door after the season. The injury thing is a double edged sword with him too. One one had you have him gutting it out with all these chronic injuries the last few years....on the other hand the guy didn't practice for 2 months. That should be a huge red flag that you need to work on replacing him. The back and foot injuries are going to be around forever.