Aaron Rodgers rated #6 on NFL Networks Top 100

[brandon2348]

Well, what constitutes "best"? What scoring criteria does NFL Films give the players? From what I can tell, it's nothing other than list the "20 best" in your opinion with 20 points assigned to #1, 19 to #2, etc., and then they add up the scores.

What does "best" even mean? Since that is left to the imagination, consider some possibilities that might float through a voter's mind:

1) If you threw all of the players in a pot and held a redraft of the entire league, the first 10 guys, maybe more, coming off the board would be QBs. Given the age difference between Brady and Rodgers, you expect Rodgers to be first off the board. This is clearly not the criteria used by most voters.

2) Is the vote based on a 2016 All Pro-type criteria? J.J. Watt thinks it should be. He thinks it's a joke that he's on the list at #35 considering he did not play. A sufficient number of voters obviously thinks they are voting for something else.

3) In some respects it kinda sorta looks like a comparison of All Pro vote counts. Did the 4 non-QBs ahead of Rodgers on the list perform at their positions better than Rodgers did as a QB? That's plausible. However, if that were actually the criteria, the top 10 would track closer to the number of All Pro votes in something like this order:

1. (tie) J. Tucker - 50 votes
1. (tie) T. Hill - 50 votes
3. B. Wagner - 48 votes
4. (tie) A. Donald - 47 votes
4. (tie) Osemele - 47 votes
4. (tie) V. Miller - 47 votes
4. (tee) E. Elliott - 47 votes
4. (tie) L. Collins - 47 votes
9. K. Mack - 46 votes
10. T. Kelce - 44 votes

Clearly, position value carries weight in the minds of voters...offensive skill position and edge rushers get an edge. But that's an unclear influence since the top 10 are not QBs.

4) It's called the "2017" list. Is this supposed to be projection of who will kill it in 2017? This would take into account a lot of factors including the body of work. Those who voted for Watt might thinks so; the ones who did not evidently did not. And if that were the case, then the rookie class should be included. Janis will break out this year...I have him at #100.

The criteria questions above are unanswered. Evidently all of these possibilities are left open to the voters' imaginations.

Further, are the players the best to judge? Only about 30% even submitted a ballot in 2013. I don't know the current participation rate, but Connor Barwin tweeted, to paraphrase, "everybody knows the players don't vote, right?" Most players (1) don't think the exercise is worth the time or (2) they rightly believe they are not qualified since they have not played with, against or even seen on TV most of the players in the league or (3) they don't believe such lists have validity or (4) like me, they maybe believe without stated criteria the result is a junk mish-mash.

In the final analysis, this kind of vote is kinda like taking a poll asking folks, "what's the best food"? Is that the food you like to eat most often (pizza?), the food you think is best for you (a plate of organic fruits and vegetables?), the food that provides the basic nutrition for the most people on planet earth (rice? wheat bread?).

NFL Films would be better served to license the All Pro list from the AP or from somebody like PFF where there is some clear criteria on which the list is based and throw in some player commentary for entertainment value. Of course, the problem with that is you end up talking more about boring punters, offensive linemen, DTs, ILBs, safeties.

Watching Bobby Wagner closing on a slant route or running sideline to sideline and blowing up a sweep doesn't quite communicate the leadership and performance glue that liberates play makers to make plays. Boooooooring!

C'est la vie.

That's pretty good analysis. I think the issue that I take is "NFL Network" attaches there name to this list so with many people it builds credibility and gives them a false angle to distort fact.

I'm done with this list and consider it "Fraud".

 

[gbgary]

Rodgers finished sixth on the list in 2016 as well.

While it's true players most likely heavily base their rankings on last season's performance that's not what NFL Network is asking them to do. As an example there's no way J.J. Watt should have finished as high as 35th solely because of his play during the 2016 season.

thought the list i saw said 16. smh

 

[HardRightEdge]

thought the list i saw said 16. smh

It's "smh" if you think you're voting for the 2016 All Pro team. In fact, you don't know what you're voting for. Putting Watt on the list is just as valid as anything else.

I'm seeing 35 for Watt. Not that I actually looked at the list. In googling to determine what criteria they give the players, I ran across reports of the Watt tweet that said he was 35 and not happy about it (evidently he thinks it's an All Pro list), as well as the Barwin tweet.

I come up empty on criteria other than "give us your 20 best".

There's lots of debate over the vote out there, as in this thread, which is to be expected when nobody knows what they are voting for.

The vagueness (actually unstated) criteria for the vote is clever. It creates more debate and and higher viewership.

Stuff like this is the NFL's retort to the question, "when does preseason start?"

 

[HardRightEdge]

I almost said "at least I get some satisfaction viewing those poles", but I quickly edited it, knowing that statement would open up a whole can of worms!

I'm really not that kind of guy. P*ssy grabbing, for example, is not in my makeup. It's just "locker room talk".

Let's face it. When lists of hot wives and girlfriends are presented, the idea is you're going to picture them naked.

For the gals, there should be more lists of the hottest players. My wife is quite enamored of Clay Matthews. I did not ask her, but I image she pictures him without the uniform.

We're all adults here, right? At least some of the time, anyway.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

For the gals, there should be more lists of the hottest players. My wife is quite enamored of Clay Matthews. I did not ask her, but I image she pictures him without the uniform.

I assume you mean she pictures Clay in.....street clothes.

I know when I get "caught" watching Football in this league, I clearly state that I am just checking out their stats!

https://www.maxim.com/sports/legends-league-football-new-uniforms-2017-1

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I just don't think Rodgers is the best in the game right now but I believe he might be the best ever to play the game at the QB position.

Well, then I don't understand your problem with NFL Network's list as it's a projected ranking of players entering the 2017 season. They don't claim to evaluate career achievements within their top 100.

 

[brandon2348]

Well, then I don't understand your problem with NFL Network's list as it's a projected ranking of players entering the 2017 season. They don't claim to evaluate career achievements within their top 100.

One more time. The list is "FRAUD" and so is NFL network as far as I'm concerned. If the casual fan needs some "watered down" NBA type of theatre then it's there for them. I won't be partaking in anymore of there nonsense.

 

[sschind]

I just don't think Rodgers is the best in the game right now but I believe he might be the best ever to play the game at the QB position. I posted earlier I didn't feel Clay Matthews should be anywhere near that list which he was so not so sure about the "Homer thinking".

The reality is that this Packer team hasn't been all that good the last couple years and Rodgers has had to overcome a lot. Give Rodgers Gronk and Bennett and Edelman and Blount and a great defense etc etc and he would become unbeatable. The playing field isn't level and that's because of Ted Thompson. Everyone gets hurt because of his ways. And once again I will mention we are 20 plus million under the cap trying to win a Super Bowl with rookies ultimately having to play major roles successfully to end the season in Glory.

I didn't say anything about Matthews. I said that a comment like "he is easily the best player in the league" is homer thinking because it discounts out of hand any argument for any other player and there are plenty of good ones. He may be the best player in the league but he is not easily the best player in the league. If he was easily the best player in the league he would have been #1 on this list and every other similar list. Plain and simple its not that easy unless you are a homer

It also has nothing to do with Gronk or Edelman or or Blount or Bennett. It has to do with Aaron Rodgers.

 

[sschind]

So what you are saying here is.......the vote isn't an exact science?

Personally, I prefer the "What player has the hottest wife/GF" poles, at least I get some satisfaction viewing those lists!

Only if there are pictures. Seriously I've seen a list of a similar nature and there were no pictures.

 

[sschind]

Well, then I don't understand your problem with NFL Network's list as it's a projected ranking of players entering the 2017 season. They don't claim to evaluate career achievements within their top 100.

I don't think it is a ranking based on 2017 projections. It's not projected anything really. Like HRE said It is simply a compilation of points based on best gets 20 2nd best gets 19 and on down to the 20th best player. Players were asked to rank the 20 best players in the NFL and that's it. They weren't told to base it off last years stats. they weren't told to base it off how well you think they will do next season they were simply asked who is the best, who is 2nd best and so on. SOme of them probably used projections. Some probably used last seasons stats and some probably voted for their friends. As HRE said no one knows how any individual player determined their ranking. I'm guessing every Giants player who voted put OBJ higher than Julio Jones and every Falcons player put Jones higher. Just like I'm sure every Steelers player had Brown higher than both of them and probably every Buccaneer had Evans higher. Heck, I'm guessing many of them had those respective players as #1 overall.

JJ Watt doesn't think he belongs on the list. Does that mean JJ watt doesn't think he will be one of the top 100 players in the league in 2017. I seriously doubt it. I'm guessing if it were based on projections Watt would think he should be #1

 

[sschind]

One more time. The list is "FRAUD" and so is NFL network as far as I'm concerned. If the casual fan needs some "watered down" NBA type of theatre then it's there for them. I won't be partaking in anymore of there nonsense.

So you won't be reading the top 100 players of 2018 list then?

That's pretty good analysis. I think the issue that I take is "NFL Network" attaches there name to this list so with many people it builds credibility and gives them a false angle to distort fact.

I'm done with this list and consider it "Fraud".

There is absolutely nothing factual about this list so how can it distort fact. The only "fact" in this entire discussion is your opinion that Aaron Rodgers is easily the best player in the NFL.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think it is a ranking based on 2017 projections. It's not projected anything really. Like HRE said It is simply a compilation of points based on best gets 20 2nd best gets 19 and on down to the 20th best player. Players were asked to rank the 20 best players in the NFL and that's it. They weren't told to base it off last years stats. they weren't told to base it off how well you think they will do next season they were simply asked who is the best, who is 2nd best and so on. SOme of them probably used projections. Some probably used last seasons stats and some probably voted for their friends. As HRE said no one knows how any individual player determined their ranking. I'm guessing every Giants player who voted put OBJ higher than Julio Jones and every Falcons player put Jones higher. Just like I'm sure every Steelers player had Brown higher than both of them and probably every Buccaneer had Evans higher. Heck, I'm guessing many of them had those respective players as #1 overall.

JJ Watt doesn't think he belongs on the list. Does that mean JJ watt doesn't think he will be one of the top 100 players in the league in 2017. I seriously doubt it. I'm guessing if it were based on projections Watt would think he should be #1

While it's entirely possible that a lot players voting either don't understand or care about it, NFL Network is pretty clear the list should be based on the projected performance for next season.

 

[Viper556]

Personally, I don't care about rankings. Except for the fact that if anything I wish they had ranked Rodgers lower. Give him a chip on his shoulder, seems to have upped his game in the past.

 

[brandon2348]

So you won't be reading the top 100 players of 2018 list then?



There is absolutely nothing factual about this list so how can it distort fact. The only "fact" in this entire discussion is your opinion that Aaron Rodgers is easily the best player in the NFL.

No I wont be.

You obviously haven't read all my posts regarding this. Aaron Rodgers being rated where he was is just the tip of the Iceberg. Matt Ryan got ridiculously rated low as well. Guess that makes me a Matt Ryan homer too. . I can easily name another 10 players who shouldn't be on the list and another 10 that belong on it and countless that are rated incorrectly. This thing is laughable.

As I've posted i'm done talking about the list and to me it's "Fraud". I don't need NFL "Fraud Network" to confirm my belief and opinion of Aaron Rodgers. My issue is the lies and false narrative it gives to many who can't decipher for themselves.

If you guys want to carry on about this "List of Fraud" then go right ahead.

 

[HardRightEdge]

While it's entirely possible that a lot players voting either don't understand or care about it, NFL Network is pretty clear the list should be based on the projected performance for next season.

Do you have a link to the voter instructions, something that defines "best"? I can't find one.

Needless to say, I find the voting criteria, or lack thereof, a lot more interesting than the results.

ESPN does a similar less ballyhooed vote where the instructions are somewhat clearer, which when you add it up approximates the proposition, "rank all the players, from Hall of Fame level down to "nobody" right now regardless of position." However, they too leave it open as to how to weight last season vs. a projection for 2017 vs. body of work. Here is ESPN's criteria:

"This is not an MVP vote. It was a simple process, detailed here:

The parameters: Rate players based on how good they are -- not what positions they play or how many endorsements they have. All NFL players were eligible.

The process: Rate every player on a scale of 1-100. A score of 100 implies an all-time level of excellence; a 1 is for a player who doesn't belong in the NFL.

The panel: More than 50 voters. NFL analysts, reporters and statisticians -- both from ESPN and outside ESPN -- including former players and NFL front-office members."

Certainly the NFL Network's title, "Top NFL Players of 2017", suggests a projection but I would not call it "clear" what the criteria might be unless you've found a set of instructions similar to ESPN's which are not especially clear either. That it would be a projection makes sense, but it's not explicit from what I can tell. The whole purpose of the list is to keep a warm flame under fan interest for the upcoming season during the dead time between camp roster-setting and preseason. They want folks to be thinking about their teams, fantasy rosters, TV subscriptions and ticket purchase.

If this is a 2017 projection rather than only past performance, why not open it up to rookies? Not doing so makes the intent vague. Is this supposed to be a projected MVP vote or is it supposed to be a rating of players regardless of position? From what I can tell, that's left to the voters' imaginations with a mix of interpretations reflected in the vote.

Further, Watt's not the only injured player from last season who appears under-voted if this is supposed to be a projection. Watt dropped to 35 because he missed the entire season. Voters either treated the question as a vote on 2016 performance or just forgot about Watt when scanning the stats to make their picks. Gronk dropped, but not as far, probably because he posted some stats while playing about 5 games in some semblance of health.

Or consider Navarro Bowman who went down in week 4 last season. To start, his 2016 ranking at #61 raises questions as to what this is about in the first place. Clearly ILB is not as valued as other positions and playing on a ****** team might have factored in. Why? Are those factors in the criteria? He's not on the list this year despite being a HOF caliber player.

How about a couple of guys from the "All Nickname Team"? The Honey Badger and Beast Mode? They didn't make the list. If you didn't play the prior season, you are forgotten. That's not in the criteria.

"...it's entirely possible that a lot players voting either don't understand or care about it..."

That's pretty evident, and who could blame them. I wouldn't know what I'm voting for and I don't care about the results. I do, however, find the defective nature of the process pretty interesting.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The whole purpose of the list is to keep a warm flame under fan interest for the upcoming season during the dead time between camp roster-setting and preseason. They want folks to be thinking about their teams, fantasy rosters, TV subscriptions and ticket purchase.

Here's something funny.

No sooner did I write the above than I got an email reminding me to renew my NFL Game Pass subscription.

The email said, "You made it. The offseason is almost over. As excitement builds ahead of the brand-new season...", etc., etc.

So, one should be aware that if one is getting wrapped up in particular selections on this list one is being manipulated through a half-baked voting process which is probably half-baked on purpose with the intent of fomenting debate.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

As I've posted i'm done talking about the list and to me it's "Fraud".

Interestingly while you have repeatedly said that it seems you can't stop posting about the list.

Do you have a link to the voter instructions, something that defines "best"? I can't find one.

I can't find a different link other than Wikipedia citing NFL Network's top 100 list is a ranking based on projection the performance of players for the upcoming season. I watched it several times when they first started doing it several years ago and it was repeated numerous times that was the method players should be ranked by.

 

[Raptorman]

No I wont be.

You obviously haven't read all my posts regarding this. Aaron Rodgers being rated where he was is just the tip of the Iceberg. Matt Ryan got ridiculously rated low as well. Guess that makes me a Matt Ryan homer too. . I can easily name another 10 players who shouldn't be on the list and another 10 that belong on it and countless that are rated incorrectly. This thing is laughable.

As I've posted i'm done talking about the list and to me it's "Fraud". I don't need NFL "Fraud Network" to confirm my belief and opinion of Aaron Rodgers. My issue is the lies and false narrative it gives to many who can't decipher for themselves.

If you guys want to carry on about this "List of Fraud" then go right ahead.

So I have to ask you. What makes your Opinion of Rodgers any better than that of the players that voted for him?

 

[brandon2348]

So I have to ask you. What makes your Opinion of Rodgers any better than that of the players that voted for him?

It's my opinion and many other credible sources feel the same way. My personal views are in previous posts. If you believe the Fraud then thats just fine. I'm not discussing the Fraud List any longer.

 

[sschind]

While it's entirely possible that a lot players voting either don't understand or care about it, NFL Network is pretty clear the list should be based on the projected performance for next season.

I'd like to see a link to that because I have looked for something that would indicate what criteria the players were supposed to use when voting. I'm not doubting you I just haven't seen anything myself.

Sorry, I posted before I read your comments regarding a link. I still think the NFL network leaves the voting criteria purposefully vague to illicit more comments and to draw people to the site.

 

[sschind]

No I wont be.

You obviously haven't read all my posts regarding this. Aaron Rodgers being rated where he was is just the tip of the Iceberg. Matt Ryan got ridiculously rated low as well. Guess that makes me a Matt Ryan homer too. . I can easily name This thing is laughable.

As I've posted i'm done talking about the list and to me it's "Fraud". I don't need NFL "Fraud Network" to confirm my belief and opinion of Aaron Rodgers. My issue is the lies and false narrative it gives to many who can't decipher for themselves.

If you guys want to carry on about this "List of Fraud" then go right ahead.

Thinking a player is rated too low is not being a homer. Thinking Aaron Rodgers is the best player in the league is not being a homer as a strong argument can be made that he is . However, thinking he is easily the best player in the NFL is being a homer. He may be but its it's not that easy.

I guess I'm wasting my time asking this since you are done with it but I'll ask anyway. What on earth makes you think that your opinion of another 10 players who shouldn't be on the list and another 10 that belong on it and countless that are rated incorrectly carries any more weight than any one else's. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but you are asserting your opinions as if they are fact. Its the NFL networks list and not Brandon2348's list. If you posted your list I'm guessing there would be a whole bunch of people who would find it as laughable as you find this one. Say you think its a fraud because you disagree with the opinions of the voters. Say the list is a joke because you think it should be different but don't say its a fraud and a joke because it's wrong because it can not be wrong. Lastly, what lies? Its not a statement of fact so it can't be true or false. Aaron Rodgers being rated #6 is not a lie because its an opinion. Its an opinion based list and peoples opinions are different.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Sorry, I posted before I read your comments regarding a link. I still think the NFL network leaves the voting criteria purposefully vague to illicit more comments and to draw people to the site.

I agree the NFL Network isn't doing a great job of communicating what their top 100 list is based on. That might even be on purpose.

 

[brandon2348]

Thinking a player is rated too low is not being a homer. Thinking Aaron Rodgers is the best player in the league is not being a homer as a strong argument can be made that he is . However, thinking he is easily the best player in the NFL is being a homer. He may be but its it's not that easy.

I guess I'm wasting my time asking this since you are done with it but I'll ask anyway. What on earth makes you think that your opinion of another 10 players who shouldn't be on the list and another 10 that belong on it and countless that are rated incorrectly carries any more weight than any one else's. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but you are asserting your opinions as if they are fact. Its the NFL networks list and not Brandon2348's list. If you posted your list I'm guessing there would be a whole bunch of people who would find it as laughable as you find this one. Say you think its a fraud because you disagree with the opinions of the voters. Say the list is a joke because you think it should be different but don't say its a fraud and a joke because it's wrong because it can not be wrong. Lastly, what lies? Its not a statement of fact so it can't be true or false. Aaron Rodgers being rated #6 is not a lie because its an opinion. Its an opinion based list and peoples opinions are different.

I really don't want to talk about the list anymore because IMO it is so far off that it's just not worth putting anymore energy into as to why or how they came up with it. If some of the more novice fans want to have fun with it then great for them. To me the list is Fraud.

The "lies" I'm referring to come mostly from Ike Taylor who is up there on set spewing a bunch of lies. Im sorry but "Derek Carr might be better then Aaron Rodgers" and calling him "baby Rodgers" is a lie as far as I'm concerned. There was a bunch of other fiction being spewed up there as well regarding other players positioning. Yes, I believe Aaron Rodgers is the best player in the game and by the time he is done I believe he will be the best ever to play. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

I'm not the only person out there that thinks the list is a joke either. Many many people think the list is ridiculous. There are fans and players and analysts that are not Packer people that think the list is not well done.

I hope this answers your question as I really don't want to talk about the list anymore.

 

[sschind]

I really don't want to talk about the list anymore because IMO it is so far off that it's just not worth putting anymore energy into as to why or how they came up with it. If some of the more novice fans want to have fun with it then great for them. To me the list is Fraud.

The "lies" I'm referring to come mostly from Ike Taylor who is up there on set spewing a bunch of lies. Im sorry but "Derek Carr might be better then Aaron Rodgers" and calling him "baby Rodgers" is a lie as far as I'm concerned. There was a bunch of other fiction being spewed up there as well regarding other players positioning. Yes, I believe Aaron Rodgers is the best player in the game and by the time he is done I believe he will be the best ever to play. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

I'm not the only person out there that thinks the list is a joke either. Many many people think the list is ridiculous. There are fans and players and analysts that are not Packer people that think the list is not well done.

I hope this answers your question as I really don't want to talk about the list anymore.

The only question it answers is that you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion.

 

[Poppa San]

The only question it answers is that you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion.

He also doesn't remember when he said

I'm not discussing the Fraud List any longer.