2024-2025 Season Studs n Duds

[Magooch]

Wow team of all Duds except for 4 players and we made the playoffs? NFL must be way easier than I thought! Or Matt LaFluer is one helluva coach

Looking at it big-picture (season-long) I have a fairly simple dichotomy for it. "Studs" are the players who either:

A. Clearly stand out/excel compared to their peers (and "peers" in this sense can mean both their teammates and/or league-wide)
or B. Made obvious progress/strides and/or showed significant growth over the course of the season

And for me if you're not one of those "studs" then you're a "dud". Maybe some have an in-between ranking for players they feel fit neither category. That's totally valid, just not the approach I'm taking.

I would give an "honorable mention" to Evan Williams (probably my #3 player on defense behind X and Cooper) and perhaps Zach Tom.

Looking at it by position groups for the rest:

OL: As above I thought Tom had a decent season. The rest of the OL was largely "replacement level" for much of the season, IMO. I don't think there was anyone else who I would say was a standout performer and/or showed great progress/development over the course of the season.

RB was a strong point, as evidenced by mention of Jacobs. Wilson and Brooks performed well enough when called upon but I'm going to have a hard time putting a backup/rotation RB in the "stud" category on principle.

TE: Kraft impressed me for sure. Not really anything of note from any of the rest, for one reason or another.

WR: Overall, one of the bigger disappointments for me. I think there were a lot of us who expected one or more of those guys to make a big step forward this year and that just didn't happen. Reed was looking promising for a few weeks and then fell off a cliff. Just about every WR on the roster either stagnated or regressed over the course of the season. A position that looked like a big strength heading into the season suddenly looks like a big position of need heading into the offseason. Easy dud call IMO.

Over on defense...

DL: In general, extremely mediocre, with the pass rush being particularly disappointing. Kenny Clark was an absolute flop. Van Ness is heading all gas, no brakes towards being a massive bust. Cox looked promising for a minute...and ended up with a pretty "meh" season overall. Gary is not close to the player we need him to be (and are paying him to be).

LB: Cooper has been a revelation. He looks like future All-Pro material. That's a big win for sure. I know he has a lot of critics, but I thought Quay Walker benefitted a lot from Cooper's emergence. He looked at least serviceable as the season went on, but I still wouldn't put him in the "stud" category, that's for sure.

CB: Nothing particularly noteworthy going on here. Jaire is great when he plays, but he's always hurt. Stokes will be gone. Ballentine, Valentine, and Rochell are average players - again none of which I would call "studs".

S: Williams has been really good overall. As above, I'd put him right behind X and Cooper as my #3 defender. X deserves a shoutout; in my estimation he had a big role in transforming our defense and is the leader I think many of us hoped Gary would be. I can't really say one way or the other on Bullard or Anderson but again wouldn't consider them to be "studs" this season, so it is what it is.

ST: McManus probably deserves a "stud," but like I said - was trying to limit to ~top 2. Whelan had a good season. Nixon went from being paid for his return abilities, to basically having returns taken off the table, so he's now wildly overpaid for what he brings to the table at this point.

Coaching: I have to count LaFleur pretty comfortably in the "duds" this year. He's constantly getting up post-game and talking about how all these responsibilities should fall to him and...so be it. Overall, our team didn't show a ton of improvement as the season went on. We didn't have many individual players show noticeable improvement. His clock management and in-game decision making was average on a good day and Eberflus-level on the bad ones. Love doesn't look to have improved in any meaningful way and I think many would argue he looked worse to close out this season than he did last season. The team was consistently undisciplined, unprepared, and rarely seemed to learn from our mistakes (Think of all the times we heard MLF say things like "That's on me, we have to get better there" or "that can't happen" - how many of them actually improved?). I give some credit for getting wins with Willis, but beyond that I don't think Matt coached a particularly good season. He is not going to be in any coach of the year conversations, to say the least.
Hafley on the other hand I've been very happy with overall. I said it in the game thread, but it's kind of concerning to me that we can bring in a DC from the college game, and in his first year in the league looks to have totally transformed our defense...while we have a head coach/playcaller who's supposed to be some kind of offensive mastermind and it felt like we were mostly spinning our tires on offense all season long. With a proper pass rush and better-than-average CBs we really might have something. Bisaccia is basically collecting free paychecks at this point. He was at one point the highest-paid ST coach in the league (might still be. Haven't checked) and finished the year with PFF's worst ST unit. He shouldn't be back.

So, there you have it. I just don't see a ton of "standout" performers on this team at the moment. Perhaps you grade by a different set of standards, that's fine too.

 

[adambr2]

I would love to see Saleh brought in as assistant head coach...take some off of MLF plate and let him focus a lot more on playcalling. I love MLF as a HC and as a playcaller...but essentially being both is not working IMO.

He needs help with spur of the moment, in-game decision making and clock management. I think it’s a matter of personal pride that more of these guys don’t do that, they think they can handle it all, but he has to let that go.

It’s clear that he’s a very bright offensive mind who often freezes like a deer in the headlights when he is put on the spot to make crucial clock management or 4th down decisions late in halves/games.

 

[rmontro]

It's always encouraging when the team finishes strong, but this season was the opposite of that. They finished with three straight losses and it looked like the wheels were falling off. What's worse is now we have to question the future of Watson and Doubs, considering their injuries.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I didn’t expect to win the Super Bowl this year, but the disappointing thing to me is that we felt closer to it at the end of last year than we do this year. The defense did progress some despite the lack of pass rush, but the young offense showed no improvement from the end of last season.

Being healthy makes a huge difference.

 

[adambr2]

Being healthy makes a huge difference.

I don’t think health had a huge adverse affect on the growth of this offense, at least not relative to any other team. Jenkins going down sucked yesterday, but the starting 5 was generally healthy most of the season. Jacobs stayed healthy despite a lot of wear and tear. The receiving corps seemed to deal with no more injuries than any other offense in the league.

I think the only case you could really make here is if you’re saying Love was basically hampered by injury all season and it affected his play.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Wicks - Only because of his drops.

Most of the drops that were attributed to Wicks were on poorly thrown balls where he had to dive for them or was barely able to get his fingers on the ball at all. Unfortunately, the NFL doesn't consider that in their stat keeping. If the receiver is able to contact the ball at all with both hands, it gets counted as a drop.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I don’t think health had a huge adverse affect on the growth of this offense, at least not relative to any other team. Jenkins going down sucked yesterday, but the starting 5 was generally healthy most of the season. Jacobs stayed healthy despite a lot of wear and tear. The receiving corps seemed to deal with no more injuries than any other offense in the league.

I think the only case you could really make here is if you’re saying Love was basically hampered by injury all season and it affected his play.

I was actually specifically looking at yesterday. Losing JA has a huge effect on the defense. As you said the pass rush was a problem. No JA means playing a lot more zone which means less or no blitzing or even threat of a blitz. We have to get a big time cover corner who is healthy. Then with any luck, JA can come back healthy and be 80% of what he was before the injuries started.

Also need to acquire a new deep threat at WR. Might be time to talk injury settlement with Watson.

 

[adambr2]

I was actually specifically looking at yesterday. Losing JA has a huge effect on the defense. As you said the pass rush was a problem. No JA means playing a lot more zone which means less or no blitzing or even threat of a blitz. We have to get a big time cover corner who is healthy. Then with any luck, JA can come back healthy and be 80% of what he was before the injuries started.

Also need to acquire a new deep threat at WR. Might be time to talk injury settlement with Watson.

My original point though was the lack of progression by the offense. I agree the defense did progress from the Barry era. The Bears game debacle aside I am happy with Hafley’s first season.
He needs some actual pass rushers on that side of the ball.

As far as Jaire, it’s hard to even classify him as a loss anymore. In the past 4 seasons he’s played in 7 games or less in 3 of those 4 seasons. At this point you cannot plan or count on his availability.

 

[Pugger]

Allen, Hurts, Jackson, Daniels not elite?

Do you consider Mayfield, Wilson or Stroud on the same level as Allen, Mahomes or Jackson? This is what I was driving at.

 

[Pugger]

I was surprised to hear the announcers say that we lead the league in DROPPED passes? If that is the case we cannot put it all on Love.

This isn't a surprise to me. If felt like often this season we had more than a couple of dropped passes a game at the most critical times. As I said elsewhere it would be nice to draft and/or add a vet who will catch contested passes more consistently than the kids we have presently.

 

[tynimiller]

Most of the drops that were attributed to Wicks were on poorly thrown balls where he had to dive for them or was barely able to get his fingers on the ball at all. Unfortunately, the NFL doesn't consider that in their stat keeping. If the receiver is able to contact the ball at all with both hands, it gets counted as a drop.

I don't deny this, as were some of the others. Reed barely escaped not making my list because on the whole he actually dropped more "bunnies" arguably than Wicks.

 

[Pugger]

What was missing was anyone from the Packers arguing with officials after film showed Nixon recovering the ball. There should have been a fair amount of outrage.

But that wasn't what lost the game. Outside of the defense and Jacobs, the team showed he heart. I watched the Washington game after and J. Daniels plays with confidence and energy. Would be nice to see Love get some of that.

I suppose we could have argued and showed some outrage but those actions do not make officials change their minds. :-/ That play wasn't what lost the game but getting behind right away on the road against that team didn't help.

 

[Pugger]

OL: As above I thought Tom had a decent season. The rest of the OL was largely "replacement level" for much of the season, IMO. I don't think there was anyone else who I would say was a standout performer and/or showed great progress/development over the course of the season.

I think we should add Jenkins to your OL stud list. It was painfully obvious how porous the line was when he left yesterday.

 

[Half Empty]

Isn't like we had a huge turnover in WR personal. I wanna chalk it up to him having a down year. But if we split the two years into two halfs each he only had one good half of a season.

I will give him one more season to prove himself. If he continues to be bland or worse regresses to bad QB play then we gotta think about drafting a new QB and say Gutes experiment was a failure.

FWIW, 2027 is the first year in which the dead cap is less than the cap hit.

 

[Magooch]

I think we should add Jenkins to your OL stud list. It was painfully obvious how porous the line was when he left yesterday.

I'm kinda back and forth on Jenkins. Overall I thought it was kind of a down year for him...he was definitely a big loss yesterday, won't argue there. But on the whole I thought he was pretty up-and-down this season.

 

[David Ciembronowicz]

Now that the "sophomore jinx" year is over, I still hold out hope that Love will show some improvement next season. He has flashes of brilliance, but then takes two steps back. You'd think that as good as our run game was this year, the passing game would benefit. Anyway, he deserves at least another year to show something IMO, but I don't know how confident I am about it. I guess this is what it's like to have an average quarterback.

MLF isn't going anywhere either, but I'm getting concerned that he is slowly losing the team.

Consider the Rex Ryan comments about Love who has been saying it since week 1 this year. Consider, the contract extension with this info:
Next year, Love is slated to have a $29.8 million cap hit and an $87.6 million dead cap due to the $75 million bonus that the team signed him to coupled with his $11.9 million base salary in 2025. His 2025 salary is fully guaranteed, as was his 2024 salary, and so is his $10.4 million salary in 2026. There’s no way of getting around that.

Beyond that, Love’s $39.5 million roster bonus fully guarantees on the fifth league day of 2025, meaning March 17th of this year. If the Packers restructure that roster bonus to a signing bonus, as they typically do, then that will only stretch out the cap hits on his contract further — which will also increase the load of his dead cap in future seasons.

Next offseason, another $20 million roster bonus fully guarantees on the fifth day of the league year in 2026, by which point Love’s dead cap number will be even larger than the $58.9 million figure that he’s currently slated to carry in 2026. For perspective, the only player who has ever had a dead cap of higher than $40.5 million who has either been traded for or released in NFL history was Russell Wilson.

So unless the Packers plan on making a move that has little to no comparisons, Love is going to be Green Bay’s quarterback through at least the 2027 season.

 

[DarkHelmet]

I agree with the players most have mentioned. Jacobs an obvious stud. Kraft, too. Xavier, Cooper, Wilson.

For me the most disappointing aspect of the team was coaching, and by that I mean MLF. The buck stops with him. Here's what bothers me:

1. The Packers lost 5 out of 6 in their division, and nearly lost ALL of their division games. That is beyond unacceptable. Lions and Vikes were good this year, but not that good. Vikings in particular got very lucky in several games.
2. The Packers were 6 & 3 at Lambeau. The goal should be to win all home games; losing more than one or two is unacceptable. Think of the Lambeau dominance the Packers had starting with Holmgren. From 1992-2002 there was only one season where they lost three games at home. In the last three seasons they've lost 4, 4 and 3. Rule for success in the NFL: win your home games, win your division games.
3. Jordan Love's decision-making took a big step backward this year. He has the physical tools, but just throws too many bad passes. The Packers organization invested a huge amount of money in him. They absolutely need to get the best out of him. That means coaching him up to better decisions and better technique.
4. Game time brain freeze. Far, far too often the Packers make dumb mistakes. Some of it is on the players, obviously, but some of it is coaching.
5. Mismanagement of the last two minutes of a half. (Not as bad as the Bears, but pretty bad.)
6. Ineffective use of challenges. (Did any coach have less success than MLF this year?)
7. A special mention for special teams. Can't anybody play this game? The punting and place-kicking are better, finally, but the coverage of kicks is inconsistent at best. The Bears tricking the coverage on a punt . . . disgraceful. And a particular irritation for me has been the kickoffs. So many times the returner brought it out and failed to make the 30. And that was the least bad outcome. Often we were taking stupid penalties and staring inside our own 20. And of course the fumble risk is everpresent, as we saw yesterday. Unless the kick is very short, take the knee, for heaven's sake. Avoid injuries, avoid penalties, avoid fumbles, avoid coming up short and simply take the touchback!

All these things combined to make me not enjoy watching the Packers very much this year. It's frustrating to watch a team beat itself. Even with an overall winning record and a playoff appearance, losing so often within the division was a real drag. I very much hope MLF can straighten out these chronic problems next season.

 

[DoURant]

I don't deny this, as were some of the others. Reed barely escaped not making my list because on the whole he actually dropped more "bunnies" arguably than Wicks.

I actually feel that Wicks basically fixed his drops issue in the 2nd half of the season, when he started catching with his hands, vs body. The first half was brutal.

 

[melvin dangerr]

Looking at it big-picture (season-long) I have a fairly simple dichotomy for it. "Studs" are the players who either:

A. Clearly stand out/excel compared to their peers (and "peers" in this sense can mean both their teammates and/or league-wide)
or B. Made obvious progress/strides and/or showed significant growth over the course of the season

And for me if you're not one of those "studs" then you're a "dud". Maybe some have an in-between ranking for players they feel fit neither category. That's totally valid, just not the approach I'm taking.

I would give an "honorable mention" to Evan Williams (probably my #3 player on defense behind X and Cooper) and perhaps Zach Tom.

Looking at it by position groups for the rest:

OL: As above I thought Tom had a decent season. The rest of the OL was largely "replacement level" for much of the season, IMO. I don't think there was anyone else who I would say was a standout performer and/or showed great progress/development over the course of the season.

RB was a strong point, as evidenced by mention of Jacobs. Wilson and Brooks performed well enough when called upon but I'm going to have a hard time putting a backup/rotation RB in the "stud" category on principle.

TE: Kraft impressed me for sure. Not really anything of note from any of the rest, for one reason or another.

WR: Overall, one of the bigger disappointments for me. I think there were a lot of us who expected one or more of those guys to make a big step forward this year and that just didn't happen. Reed was looking promising for a few weeks and then fell off a cliff. Just about every WR on the roster either stagnated or regressed over the course of the season. A position that looked like a big strength heading into the season suddenly looks like a big position of need heading into the offseason. Easy dud call IMO.

Over on defense...

DL: In general, extremely mediocre, with the pass rush being particularly disappointing. Kenny Clark was an absolute flop. Van Ness is heading all gas, no brakes towards being a massive bust. Cox looked promising for a minute...and ended up with a pretty "meh" season overall. Gary is not close to the player we need him to be (and are paying him to be).

LB: Cooper has been a revelation. He looks like future All-Pro material. That's a big win for sure. I know he has a lot of critics, but I thought Quay Walker benefitted a lot from Cooper's emergence. He looked at least serviceable as the season went on, but I still wouldn't put him in the "stud" category, that's for sure.

CB: Nothing particularly noteworthy going on here. Jaire is great when he plays, but he's always hurt. Stokes will be gone. Ballentine, Valentine, and Rochell are average players - again none of which I would call "studs".

S: Williams has been really good overall. As above, I'd put him right behind X and Cooper as my #3 defender. X deserves a shoutout; in my estimation he had a big role in transforming our defense and is the leader I think many of us hoped Gary would be. I can't really say one way or the other on Bullard or Anderson but again wouldn't consider them to be "studs" this season, so it is what it is.

ST: McManus probably deserves a "stud," but like I said - was trying to limit to ~top 2. Whelan had a good season. Nixon went from being paid for his return abilities, to basically having returns taken off the table, so he's now wildly overpaid for what he brings to the table at this point.

Coaching: I have to count LaFleur pretty comfortably in the "duds" this year. He's constantly getting up post-game and talking about how all these responsibilities should fall to him and...so be it. Overall, our team didn't show a ton of improvement as the season went on. We didn't have many individual players show noticeable improvement. His clock management and in-game decision making was average on a good day and Eberflus-level on the bad ones. Love doesn't look to have improved in any meaningful way and I think many would argue he looked worse to close out this season than he did last season. The team was consistently undisciplined, unprepared, and rarely seemed to learn from our mistakes (Think of all the times we heard MLF say things like "That's on me, we have to get better there" or "that can't happen" - how many of them actually improved?). I give some credit for getting wins with Willis, but beyond that I don't think Matt coached a particularly good season. He is not going to be in any coach of the year conversations, to say the least.
Hafley on the other hand I've been very happy with overall. I said it in the game thread, but it's kind of concerning to me that we can bring in a DC from the college game, and in his first year in the league looks to have totally transformed our defense...while we have a head coach/playcaller who's supposed to be some kind of offensive mastermind and it felt like we were mostly spinning our tires on offense all season long. With a proper pass rush and better-than-average CBs we really might have something. Bisaccia is basically collecting free paychecks at this point. He was at one point the highest-paid ST coach in the league (might still be. Haven't checked) and finished the year with PFF's worst ST unit. He shouldn't be back.

So, there you have it. I just don't see a ton of "standout" performers on this team at the moment. Perhaps you grade by a different set of standards, that's fine too.

Good work

 

[melvin dangerr]

It’s not popular with some, but it may be time to look at or a management review of moving on from MLF

 

[David Ciembronowicz]

It’s not popular with some, but it may be time to look at or a management review of moving on from MLF

McCarthy is available! LOL Coaching, play calling, culture (discipline of players on how to act and not respond), instruction by coaching staff (the guy who took over at OT/OG from Jenkins) did not just look like a rookie he played like a rookie who had never practiced on an NFL team before (holding, out of position, improper foundation, etc). This team from coaches to players needs a lot of work, whose responsibility HC and GM, up next AstC's and players. Bottom line GB may be youngest team but they also have lots of holes filled by mediocre players, they have some players with talent who do not exhibit the talent and it seems like many who don't have the drive to excel (not necessarily win) but the want to do whatever it takes to get better each week, each game, each practice. Who is responsible for focus, each individual but their teammates and coaches to help them focus. Leadership also extends into the above, who are the leaders on this team and why isn't Love one of them, you don't see it from this guy and the QB must be a leader and perform like one. Who else needs/should be?

 

[milani]

This isn't a surprise to me. If felt like often this season we had more than a couple of dropped passes a game at the most critical times. As I said elsewhere it would be nice to draft and/or add a vet who will catch contested passes more consistently than the kids we have presently.

I have disagreed with many who said we need a big time name receiver like Adams was. Now I believe we do. We need a physical receiver with good hands that teams cannot ignore especially on 3rd down. Whether you are throwing long or throwing over the top in the corner of the end zone you need someone who can go UP and fight for the ball. Our wide out receivers look more like HS track stars and as a result they cannot handle all the hits.

 

[games]

Studs: Jacobs, Kraft, Tom, Whelan, McManus, Gary, Cooper, McKinney, Williams, Willis

Duds: Love, Myers, Alexander, Stokes

Despite last night's game, Tom is an All-Pro. Don't understand the hate for Gary who was chipped all year, led the team in sacks, and generally maintained the edge when called on. Special mention for Willis, who won three games for us as a backup.

Love regressed a bit, but think his MCL lingered more than was let on. I know Myers is a locker room and fan fave, but we need a stud center. (Wish him the best in recovery.) Alexander is a cancer and it's time to cut bait with him. Huber's statistics on Stokes are too big to ignore, although he did seem to improve the last few weeks of the season.

This team did go 11-6 in regular season. Halfley elevated the defense to a higher standard, and unlike prior seasons, all seven of their losses were reasonable. (I chalk up the Bears loss to timing, and the rest to just losing to good teams that played better than the Pack.)

 

[milani]

Studs: Jacobs, Kraft, Tom, Whelan, McManus, Gary, Cooper, McKinney, Williams, Willis

Duds: Love, Myers, Alexander, Stokes

Despite last night's game, Tom is an All-Pro. Don't understand the hate for Gary who was chipped all year, led the team in sacks, and generally maintained the edge when called on. Special mention for Willis, who won three games for us as a backup.

Love regressed a bit, but think his MCL lingered more than was let on. I know Myers is a locker room and fan fave, but we need a stud center. (Wish him the best in recovery.) Alexander is a cancer and it's time to cut bait with him. Huber's statistics on Stokes are too big to ignore, although he did seem to improve the last few weeks of the season.

This team did go 11-6 in regular season. Halfley elevated the defense to a higher standard, and unlike prior seasons, all seven of their losses were reasonable. (I chalk up the Bears loss to timing, and the rest to just losing to good teams that played better than the Pack.)

As a team in two years we made progress. In 2023 we were in complete rebuild mode. Rodgers era over. Gone were the Adams, Lazard, and Cobb. 1st year QB and we went 9-8. 2nd year 11-6. Both playoff seasons. 2024 was considerably a tougher schedule than 2023. In Favre's first 3 seasons we only won 9 games each time. This team CAN get better.

 

[melvin dangerr]

I don’t know, the record is skipping on describing this team, is it Young, inexperienced, mediocre, the first reason is wearing thin, Professional is the term that describes their occupation, and if it is, then perform like the job you were brought in to do, 2nd and 3 stringers practice to, I don’t think their on the sidelines reading a book, injuries happen in every game in the NFL my hats off to any Starter who can play every game without injury, but even still talent and talent at backup depth could probably help this team, just sayin.