2023 Tyni's Prospect Thread

[tynimiller]

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The second TE I am just gushing over and am just slightly less excited about is Josh Whyle of Cincinatti...and where he is slighly less of a blocker he is that much more of a burner and pass threat than Mayer (and Mayer is no slouch remember). This cat is 6'5' 245 (bet gets around 250 for this year) and has been a consistent above the rim and reliable target for Ridder the last two years. With Ridder gone and Alec Pierce as well I look for Whyle to put up at least 500 yards this year and possibly more as arguably one of the Bearcats' deadliest receiving threats for sure. This incredible TE is said to flirt with sub 4.6 speed, pairs that with a 35 1/2 inch vertical and nearly a ten and a half foot broad jump....just for reference those measurables have him building easily a 8.00+ RAS.


I know some will say I'm crazy, but I 100% say he is end of 1st round potential but I'll lock in a 2nd round grade on him right here today. I truly believe in him A TON!

To keep myself honest Whyle has been just a touch of a let down. Yes, he is for sure one of the weapons through the air for the Bearcats and actually has more receptions already than either of his previous two years when he was an every down nearly type guy:

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I still LOVE a lot of what I see out of Whyle, BUT throughout the season I haven't seen him just explode like I had him down to do - that isn't all on him however as the Bearcats have been quite the balanced attack in distribution through the air, having two 50+ reception and four at 20+ receptions and 6 at 15+. What I have liked his a little bit of body change (5+ lbs reports say) from last year has added some strength and his blocking ability has improved...technique and effort blocking will always be his style here though as he is not a Michael Mayer or a Marcedes Lewis type blocker that will win with his strength so refinement here will for sure be needed. I've come down some on Whyle and no longer see him as a borderline top 65 prospect. While I have cooled on Whyle - I also see more in him than many and would not be shocked if he tests well to hear his name called as the sunsets deep in Day 2 but personally he is a 4th round target for me if I haven't added a TE earlier. For frame and comparison everyone - he is an inch taller and 5 pounds or so heavier than Tonyan...I see a more refined route runner and his hands are special.

 

[tynimiller]

I have *As a Notre Dame fan* Mayer as my #2 TE in Round 1. The guy I like is Gilbert from Georgia...you can't pass on 6'7 260 with a pedigree of playing winning football in college.

Hang on...just re read this thread and you have Georgia's TE4 as your TE1 over Mayer? Gilbert has barely seen snaps this year and presently has just two receptions, albeit one is a TD - I also am not showing him as 6'7'? Did you mean someone else?

Brock Bowers is their biggest production TE with 41 receptions, 625 yards and 4 TDs....Darnell Washington is their second at 24 receptions, 392 yards and 1 TD...those are their 1 and 2.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Florida fan here. I really like Richardson but he has a lot of work to do at the moment IMO. Personally I think the best thing for his development would be to return for another year of college ball.
I think he's as talented/gifted as any QB in the upcoming class, if not more so. But he's still wildly inaccurate at times, seems to struggle to read defenses beyond vanilla looks, and often tends to lock into first reads or try to force a big play instead of taking a higher-percentage less splashy look. He has a ridiculously strong arm, he's fast, and he's big and strong enough that he can take defenders on when running and take a hit (and give a hit himself).
And he has been awfully inconsistent for much of the year.

Spectacular vs Utah to open the season. Immediately jumped out as a popular Heisman pick. 17/24 for 168 with 11 rushes for 106 and 3TD.
Then turned around and arguably cost Florida the game the next week vs Kentucky. 14/35 for 143 with 0 TD and 2 INT and just 6 carries for *4* yards. He struggled again the following week...
...before lighting up Tennessee (who at the time looked to be one of the best teams in the country) with 453 passing yards, 2TD, 1 INT, and 62 rush yards and 2 TD.
Average against Mizzou, pretty decent in a loss to LSU, and overall pretty good against Georgia and TAMU...but then pretty mediocre against SC before having a big game vs Vandy (ultimately a loss tho).

Overall I would see him as a "project" player if he enters the draft this year. Stroud and Young would almost certainly be taken ahead of him and it wouldn't surprise me at all if Will Levis was, too. That said I also get the sense that his skillset and talent ceiling is such that he wouldn't make it past the 2nd round either. But as before IMO the best thing for him would be to return for another year. I don't think there's any chance we'd consider him in this upcoming draft but if by some chance he stays another year in college and develops a bit further he might be a more conceivable option the following year.

Thanks for all that background Magooch. I ran across him in one of the way-too-early 2023 mock drafts that had him going at #24. His size and athleticism fit the "modern" QB - Allen, Mahomes - big guys who can run AND throw. The running part is easier, I think. But agree that with these "project" guys, they do better with another year in college. And Florida faces some top-shelf talent, and that will help him as well.

Thanks again. I'm thinking that either this year or next, and assuming Rodgers stays for two more years, the Packers will have to draft a QB. I'm one of those commenters who doesn't think love is the answer. And if Rodgers does stay for two more years, I would guess Love himself would want a trade to a team where he has a reasonable chance of starting.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Hang on...just re read this thread and you have Georgia's TE4 as your TE1 over Mayer? Gilbert has barely seen snaps this year and presently has just two receptions, albeit one is a TD - I also am not showing him as 6'7'? Did you mean someone else?

Brock Bowers is their biggest production TE with 41 receptions, 625 yards and 4 TDs....Darnell Washington is their second at 24 receptions, 392 yards and 1 TD...those are their 1 and 2.

Hey Ty, is there a TE you like the Packers might take in round 1, or round 2? Also where do you think Mayer goes in round 1? Sure looks like a top 10 guy to me.

 

[tynimiller]

Hey Ty, is there a TE you like the Packers might take in round 1, or round 2? Also where do you think Mayer goes in round 1? Sure looks like a top 10 guy to me.

As my very first post said Mayer is my bonafide TE1 and I truly think he may be in my bonafide Top 5 prospects in this year's draft. I don't envision him getting past midpoint of the first round personally. Right now I'd put the over/under for TEs in the first round at 1.5 and I suspect Mayer may end up being the only drafted, with the next two favorites it seems at the moment being Darnell Washington from Georgie or Dalton Kincaid from Utah.

Darnell and Dalton cannot be more different however....Darnell is like Mayer a BEAST of a man. I give Mayer the edge in route running, blocking technique and hands...Darnell has the edge on Mayer it seems in brute strength however slightly. Darnell is 6'7' vs Mayer who is 6'4' (some claim he actually grew and is 6'5' now)...Mayer is 265lbs while Darnell is 270lbs. Mayer is thicker for sure IMO and I swear he plays bigger than his frame even physically is. Darnell to me is the poor man's Mayer...but by a decent margin IMO - enough to where I believe Darnell is not a first rounder, and personally I would think taking him higher than late 2nd round to be a little reachy (albeit not a ton...think similar to "reach" for Dillon was).

Dalton Kincaid is more your pure receiving threat...where Darnell this year being first time producing over 170 yards, Dalton is working on flirting with hitting 900 (presently at 748) and Dalton has eclipsed 370 yards every year he saw full season of play (2018/2019/2021/2022) and will eclipse 800 yards for the second year it seems this year.

Mayer is truly both worlds for a TE...he can flat out demolish in the blocking game, and then slip the seam for 30 yards on nearly any LB that has been assigned to him. Mayer has produced incredibly well:

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I hesitate to ever bring a guy to the level of saying I expect Gronk like things...but I truly do believe that is what Mayer is going to be.

 

[Heyjoe4]

As my very first post said Mayer is my bonafide TE1 and I truly think he may be in my bonafide Top 5 prospects in this year's draft. I don't envision him getting past midpoint of the first round personally. Right now I'd put the over/under for TEs in the first round at 1.5 and I suspect Mayer may end up being the only drafted, with the next two favorites it seems at the moment being Darnell Washington from Georgie or Dalton Kincaid from Utah.

Darnell and Dalton cannot be more different however....Darnell is like Mayer a BEAST of a man. I give Mayer the edge in route running, blocking technique and hands...Darnell has the edge on Mayer it seems in brute strength however slightly. Darnell is 6'7' vs Mayer who is 6'4' (some claim he actually grew and is 6'5' now)...Mayer is 265lbs while Darnell is 270lbs. Mayer is thicker for sure IMO and I swear he plays bigger than his frame even physically is. Darnell to me is the poor man's Mayer...but by a decent margin IMO - enough to where I believe Darnell is not a first rounder, and personally I would think taking him higher than late 2nd round to be a little reachy (albeit not a ton...think similar to "reach" for Dillon was).

Dalton Kincaid is more your pure receiving threat...where Darnell this year being first time producing over 170 yards, Dalton is working on flirting with hitting 900 (presently at 748) and Dalton has eclipsed 370 yards every year he saw full season of play (2018/2019/2021/2022) and will eclipse 800 yards for the second year it seems this year.

Mayer is truly both worlds for a TE...he can flat out demolish in the blocking game, and then slip the seam for 30 yards on nearly any LB that has been assigned to him. Mayer has produced incredibly well:

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I hesitate to ever bring a guy to the level of saying I expect Gronk like things...but I truly do believe that is what Mayer is going to be.

Thanks for the analysis, now I know what to watch for. I think the premium TEs are the ones who can stretch the field. They still need to block, that's part of the job, but the Packers have gone for what seems like forever without such a TE (minus the one year Cook was here).

I actually think DeGuarra is the most valuable TE on the team (that's not saying much). But he was selected as a FB/TE hybrid - he's great blocker and a decent receiver. The team just needs more from that position, ideally, in the draft.

 

[tynimiller]

Thanks for the analysis, now I know what to watch for. I think the premium TEs are the ones who can stretch the field. They still need to block, that's part of the job, but the Packers have gone for what seems like forever without such a TE (minus the one year Cook was here).

I actually think DeGuarra is the most valuable TE on the team (that's not saying much). But he was selected as a FB/TE hybrid - he's great blocker and a decent receiver. The team just needs more from that position, ideally, in the draft.

So the MLF system thrives when he has at his disposable three different TE types...you can have a guy that can do both, and honestly that merely enhances it more. Deguara fills the H back role very well, Davis could be the support type TE of 2023 if Tonyan gets more elsewhere and Lewis is just hitting father time IMO. Mayer could instantly be everything Tonyan and Lewis is woven into one guy - he may not have the intricate knowledge or relationship of the passing game with Rodgers that Tonyan has or the premiere blocking level Lewis has but if they're both say a 10 on a scale, I personally think Mayer is a 8 in both as a rookie Day 1. That's impressive stuff.

I honestly think getting a high level TE that can come in and be a starter out the gate in 2023 is vastly more important to us than adding another top flight WR in this upcoming draft (a need for sure - especially depending how Watkins/Lazard/Cobb all shake out in FA). But offensively I believe a surefire day one OL addition or a day one TE are the most massive ways to impact a Rodgers led offense in 2023.

Two guys (one I've touched on before) that should be considered IMO on second half of Day 2 are Luke Musgrave and Tucker Kraft.

Luke Musgrave out of Oregon State like Mayer and Darnell is a Junior (so not a RS Senior and older like Dalton).

Musgrave I think would have pushed if not produced more yards than Dalton had he not seen an injury in the second game of the year...so while last year he put up 304 yards on 22 receptions, this year has only seen 11 receptions and 169 yards IN TWO GAMES FOLKS...but his ability is clear and evident when you watch him. He is 6'6' 250lbs so he has that prototypical desired frame, in their running attack his blocking chops are clear and evident - but where he shines is more as that receiving threat type TE. I believe he declares, but chance with the injury he could decide to go back for one more year...if he doesn't I have a firm 3rd round grade on Luke.

Tucker Kraft (South Dakota State) is another guy with injury issues this year, but this 6'5' 255lb stud TE last year put up 780 yards on 65 receptions to lead all college football for TEs. I'm not quite as big of a believer as some, seeing him quoted as a Top 50 pick level guy, but I'm not too far off as I wouldn't be shocked if someone nabs him late 2nd - especially depending on what his measurables come in at....if he can prove the foot injury is healed and he will for sure be what he was prior I think the odds of him sneaking in to the bottom of round 2 goes up a lot. This cat LOVES pancaking and imposing on others through blocks...

 

[Heyjoe4]

So the MLF system thrives when he has at his disposable three different TE types...you can have a guy that can do both, and honestly that merely enhances it more. Deguara fills the H back role very well, Davis could be the support type TE of 2023 if Tonyan gets more elsewhere and Lewis is just hitting father time IMO. Mayer could instantly be everything Tonyan and Lewis is woven into one guy - he may not have the intricate knowledge or relationship of the passing game with Rodgers that Tonyan has or the premiere blocking level Lewis has but if they're both say a 10 on a scale, I personally think Mayer is a 8 in both as a rookie Day 1. That's impressive stuff.

I honestly think getting a high level TE that can come in and be a starter out the gate in 2023 is vastly more important to us than adding another top flight WR in this upcoming draft (a need for sure - especially depending how Watkins/Lazard/Cobb all shake out in FA). But offensively I believe a surefire day one OL addition or a day one TE are the most massive ways to impact a Rodgers led offense in 2023.

Two guys (one I've touched on before) that should be considered IMO on second half of Day 2 are Luke Musgrave and Tucker Kraft.

Luke Musgrave out of Oregon State like Mayer and Darnell is a Junior (so not a RS Senior and older like Dalton).

Musgrave I think would have pushed if not produced more yards than Dalton had he not seen an injury in the second game of the year...so while last year he put up 304 yards on 22 receptions, this year has only seen 11 receptions and 169 yards IN TWO GAMES FOLKS...but his ability is clear and evident when you watch him. He is 6'6' 250lbs so he has that prototypical desired frame, in their running attack his blocking chops are clear and evident - but where he shines is more as that receiving threat type TE. I believe he declares, but chance with the injury he could decide to go back for one more year...if he doesn't I have a firm 3rd round grade on Luke.

Tucker Kraft (South Dakota State) is another guy with injury issues this year, but this 6'5' 255lb stud TE last year put up 780 yards on 65 receptions to lead all college football for TEs. I'm not quite as big of a believer as some, seeing him quoted as a Top 50 pick level guy, but I'm not too far off as I wouldn't be shocked if someone nabs him late 2nd - especially depending on what his measurables come in at....if he can prove the foot injury is healed and he will for sure be what he was prior I think the odds of him sneaking in to the bottom of round 2 goes up a lot. This cat LOVES pancaking and imposing on others through blocks...

I would be ecstatic if they could get Mayer. And I agree we don't need to draft another WR, at least not on day 1. And also agree that either Mayer or a stud OT would be the ideal Round 1 pick. I don't expect Bakhtiari will be around, so they need a T, ideally a LT to tighten up that line.

The problem with the OL this year has been a lack of consistency. It's so important for guys to play next to each other for extended periods of time. If that means Jenkins is a LG, so be it as long as Myers, Runyan, and Nijman are also starting. But moving guys around is just not good.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Thanks again. I'm thinking that either this year or next, and assuming Rodgers stays for two more years, the Packers will have to draft a QB. I'm one of those commenters who doesn't think love is the answer. And if Rodgers does stay for two more years, I would guess Love himself would want a trade to a team where he has a reasonable chance of starting.

If Rodgers stays for another two years Love can sign with another team in free agency after next season.

And I agree we don't need to draft another WR, at least not on day 1.

The Packers will desperately need to add another wide receiver next offseason. I would prefer them to sign a proven veteran though.

I don't expect Bakhtiari will be around, so they need a T, ideally a LT to tighten up that line.

Once again, I fully expect Bakhtiari to be on the roster next season as well, ideally with a restructured contract. First of all the Packers don't save a whole lot of cap space by moving on from him and he has been healthy as of late.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As most assumed, it is now official that Notre Dame TE Mayer will be making himself available for the NFL Draft.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[tynimiller]

As most assumed, it is now official that Notre Dame TE Mayer will be making himself available for the NFL Draft.

MSN

www.msn.com

I am 100% on board with drafting him regardless of where we draft in the first round.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I am 100% on board with drafting him regardless of where we draft in the first round.

Agreed. He's a day 1 starter, an impact player. And maybe GB finally gets a home grown TE to compete with the best. From all the film I've seen, the guy is the real deal. If there is a knock, it's his speed. But TEs aren't known for speed but strength, stretching the field, and for some, blocking. Actually they all need to block but that's not a priority for this type of TE.

 

[tynimiller]

Agreed. He's a day 1 starter, an impact player. And maybe GB finally gets a home grown TE to compete with the best. From all the film I've seen, the guy is the real deal. If there is a knock, it's his speed. But TEs aren't known for speed but strength, stretching the field, and for some, blocking. Actually they all need to block but that's not a priority for this type of TE.

More receiving type guys that are faster can be had in free agency or later in draft. Who knows honestly I think Tyler Davis May fight for a larger role next year

 

[Heyjoe4]

More receiving type guys that are faster can be had in free agency or later in draft. Who knows honestly I think Tyler Davis May fight for a larger role next year

Davis is kind of intriguing and hasn't had much of a chance as the Packers hope Tonyan returns to form. I'm guessing Tonyan is gone after this year, so if TE isn't addressed in the draft, Davis will get more snaps.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What am I missing on Davis that you guys like? I see a guy with 8 catches on 14 targets, 61 yds and no TD's, in 3 seasons. His blocking doesn't seem all that special either.

 

[tynimiller]

What am I missing on Davis that you guys like? I see a guy with 8 catches on 14 targets, 61 yds and no TD's, in 3 seasons. His blocking also doesn't seem all that special either.

I am not a massive fan, but I also see a guy that is still growing. Folks forget he’s truly no different than Tonyan was just circumstances and a weaker room has caused him to play before he has fleshed out is all.

Trust me Davis being here isn’t stopping me in drafting a second TE even if you get Mayer or sign a top level TE in FA…I’m not letting it stop me from signing a low level FA veteran either. With the PS rules how it is now id love to see him be a guy there one more year

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Who knows honestly I think Tyler Davis May fight for a larger role next year

I'm fine with allowing Davis to fight for a roster spot but I don't want the Packers to rely on him being ready for a larger role.

 

[Mondio]

He seemed to get rid of his drops that plagued him early this year and somehow made the team, but I haven't seen anything this season to make me think he's lined up for a larger role. He's just there, and the last memory is a wrong route that ended in an INT. and from the various sources I read, not only did he run the wrong route to begin with he ran a sloppy route on top wrong route that resulted in an INT.

I would keep Tonyan for cheap, he is pretty reliable catching the ball at least. I they find an upgrade for a couple of the TE's on this roster by next season. At least one needs to be improved considerably so.

 

[tynimiller]

He seemed to get rid of his drops that plagued him early this year and somehow made the team, but I haven't seen anything this season to make me think he's lined up for a larger role. He's just there, and the last memory is a wrong route that ended in an INT. and from the various sources I read, not only did he run the wrong route to begin with he ran a sloppy route on top wrong route that resulted in an INT.

I would keep Tonyan for cheap, he is pretty reliable catching the ball at least. I they find an upgrade for a couple of the TE's on this roster by next season. At least one needs to be improved considerably so.

Couple things, folks keep thinking Davis is more than he is - dude is still VERY raw and as I said above due to circumstances of the roster and Tonyan's injury was provided an elevated position than he otherwise should IMO. He was drafted just in 2020 in the 6th....many forget Tonyan took quite awhile to even find a groove and role with the Packers (who weren't even who picked up up after the draft.

Tonyan ran a wrong route this year according to numerous experts (Benkert broke it down the best IMO) that led to an INT, it happens and Tonyan is a much more seasoned TE than Davis will be even for another year or two.

Davis is essentially in his second year truly despite third in NFL. Next year will be the make it or break it year for Davis - and is the epitome of the type of guy you want to have battling for that TE3 or so role next year as he will be cheap on a RFA deal and is guy many folks seem to see a high ceiling for just as they did for a young Tonyan.

 

[Pkrjones]

He seemed to get rid of his drops that plagued him early this year and somehow made the team, but I haven't seen anything this season to make me think he's lined up for a larger role. He's just there, and the last memory is a wrong route that ended in an INT. and from the various sources I read, not only did he run the wrong route to begin with he ran a sloppy route on top wrong route that resulted in an INT.

I would keep Tonyan for cheap, he is pretty reliable catching the ball at least. I they find an upgrade for a couple of the TE's on this roster by next season. At least one needs to be improved considerably so.

Unfortunately, per Spotrac's estimated market value it'll cost over $5Mil/yr. to keep him. At 29 (as of April, '23) I hope Gute lets him walk, don't think he adds $5Mil value to the team, anymore. I used to love his potential, but either he's dropped off considerably since the knee injury OR MLF isn't using him properly. Either way, not worth the $$, get some low-priced FA's to block & occasionally catch a pass. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/robert-tonyan-jr-22072/market-value/

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm fine with allowing Davis to fight for a roster spot but I don't want the Packers to rely on him being ready for a larger role.

Exactly, I think this is a mistake made too often, sometimes by choice, sometimes not. Relying on a player making a big jump, is much different than hoping a player makes a big jump. I won't bore everyone with how many times we have seen this situation and how many various positions it has impacted, but by midseason, we usually knew it was a mistake.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Couple things, folks keep thinking Davis is more than he is - dude is still VERY raw and as I said above due to circumstances of the roster and Tonyan's injury was provided an elevated position than he otherwise should IMO. He was drafted just in 2020 in the 6th....many forget Tonyan took quite awhile to even find a groove and role with the Packers (who weren't even who picked up up after the draft.

Tonyan ran a wrong route this year according to numerous experts (Benkert broke it down the best IMO) that led to an INT, it happens and Tonyan is a much more seasoned TE than Davis will be even for another year or two.

Davis is essentially in his second year truly despite third in NFL. Next year will be the make it or break it year for Davis - and is the epitome of the type of guy you want to have battling for that TE3 or so role next year as he will be cheap on a RFA deal and is guy many folks seem to see a high ceiling for just as they did for a young Tonyan.

I guess Davis is intriguing because he's on the roster, I assume for a reason, and why not test him out? To answer Poker's question, I have no reason to believe he's special until he proves it. Sorry for the confusion.

But Davis or not, I still would like the Packers to draft Mayer in round 1, or get a solid FA TE if there are any that they can afford. That position has been limited to blockers since the one season they had Jared Cook. time to get a real receiving TE.

 

[tynimiller]

I guess Davis is intriguing because he's on the roster, I assume for a reason, and why not test him out? To answer Poker's question, I have no reason to believe he's special until he proves it. Sorry for the confusion.

But Davis or not, I still would like the Packers to draft Mayer in round 1, or get a solid FA TE if there are any that they can afford. That position has been limited to blockers since the one season they had Jared Cook. time to get a real receiving TE.

If we want solely a receiving type TE than Dalton Kincaid from Utah should be the target. I say that hesitantly because Mayer I think is a 500 yard 5 TD type TE out the gate...Kincaid however is a deadly deadly receiving threat TE without the strength and power that Mayer has. Dalton though should not be considered unless late 1st is where a team is IMO and is a true 2nd round grade guy at TE that could start his rookie year though for a team and produce.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If we want solely a receiving type TE than Dalton Kincaid from Utah should be the target. I say that hesitantly because Mayer I think is a 500 yard 5 TD type TE out the gate...Kincaid however is a deadly deadly receiving threat TE without the strength and power that Mayer has. Dalton though should not be considered unless late 1st is where a team is IMO and is a true 2nd round grade guy at TE that could start his rookie year though for a team and produce.

Really depends on who is at QB for the Packers. I think a Kincaid type of guy would have been perfect for Rodgers. However, if the Packers are building for the future and that future doesn't contain Rodgers, Mayer might be the guy that better suits MLF's offense.

 

[tynimiller]

Really depends on who is at QB for the Packers. I think a Kincaid type of guy would have been perfect for Rodgers. However, if the Packers are building for the future and that future doesn't contain Rodgers, Mayer might be the guy that better suits MLF's offense.

If we only had two second rounders this year...I would love adding Dalton and Tucker...two very different TEs that could be incredible.