2023 TNF shout box thread vs Motown kitty cats.

[melvin dangerr]

I would like the Packers to hire a OC, and take the play calling out of MLF hands

 

[gopkrs]

I would like the Packers to hire a OC, and take the play calling out of MLF hands

Well, we have one. He did good with the O line. Has he had a chance to call plays? I don't know.

 

[Outsider99]

How many 1st round picks on defense...?
On the post-game show , Taush said Lafleur didn't even blink when considering to rehire Barry. I didn't check, but I believe there were several coordinators available including Vangio.

 

[Team Ronny]

The one thing that bugs me about this organization: THEY ARE CHEAPSKATES WHEN IT COMES TO HIRING REPUTABLE COORDINATORS! Look how how it took to pony up for a decent special teams coordinator.

 

[Outsider99]

I pleasantly surprised with our kicking team. I used to get so nervous with Crosby.
(This was in response to Special teams discussion earlier)

 

[gopkrs]

I pleasantly surprised with our kicking team. I used to get so nervous with Crosby.
(This was in response to Special teams discussion earlier)

I'm gonna be pretty nervous when this guy's kick is really important. But they sure look crisp and strong so far.

 

[melvin dangerr]

Well, we have one. He did good with the O line. Has he had a chance to call plays? I don't know.

Can you tell me who he is I’m in the dark about it.

 

[melvin dangerr]

How many 1st round picks on defense...?
On the post-game show , Taush said Lafleur didn't even blink when considering to rehire Barry. I didn't check, but I believe there were several coordinators available including Vangio.

MLF had made up his mind early in the season no new DC’s, his job may be considered at the end of the season if this team poots again

 

[gopkrs]

Can you tell me who he is I’m in the dark about it.

Adam Stenovich

 

[OldSchool101]

MLF had made up his mind early in the season no new DC’s, his job may be considered at the end of the season if this team poots again

I doubt that. He’s one of the most Winningest HC in NFL history at this juncture. He’s now playing with a brand new QB that had us at .500
I suspect a normal expectation is in that 6-8 Win area in year 1 of Jordan Love as a starter. We’d have to go 2-15 or 3-14 etc.. and fall apart completely to warrant that type move

I fully understand wanting to punish someone when we have a bad half a game. The Patriots just lost to Dallas and it was 3-28 at halftime. Do they fire Bill?
Miami put a 70 Burger on Denver last week which was a historical type beating for any Defense.
This Week the Broncos Won and Buffalo shamed Miami 48-20

 

[milani]

I doubt that. He’s one of the most Winningest HC in NFL history at this juncture. He’s now playing with a brand new QB that had us at .500
I suspect a normal expectation is in that 6-8 Win area in year 1 of Jordan Love as a starter. We’d have to go 2-15 or 3-14 etc.. and fall apart completely to warrant that type move

I fully understand wanting to punish someone when we have a bad half a game. The Patriots just lost to Dallas and it was 3-28 at halftime. Do they fire Bill?
Miami put a 70 Burger on Denver last week which was a historical type beating for any Defense.
This Week the Broncos Won and Buffalo shamed Miami 48-20

Right now the team and organization that is swimming in disillusionment and chaos is the Bears. They started a rebuild and now have to rebuild the rebuild.

 

[Half Empty]

I fully understand wanting to punish someone when we have a bad half a game. The Patriots just lost to Dallas and it was 3-28 at halftime. Do they fire Bill?

OK, certainly not for a bad game or half. However, how about "Hey, Bill, your teams regularly made the playoffs and won a bunch of SBs. Maybe it was Brady, maybe that you provided him with really good D, maybe it was picking up the right pieces from free agency and the waiver wire. Regardless, your teams have missed the playoffs twice in the last three years, and this one is at 1-3. Whatever was working before no longer is. Thanks for everything, see ya.

On the Packer side, things like the D and hanging on to coaches that even casual fans could see were lousy (e.g. special teams) have been a consistent problem for over a decade. The current staff was brought in to fix the team. They haven't. The D still plays soft and uses alignments that our own Xs and Ox guys know are wrong. The offense isn't necessarily dragged down by a new QB but still can't do the job. So, ya, it's not unthinkable to consider replacing the guys making the decisions.

 

[Magooch]

The Packers defense - as currently assembled - has a virtually unprecedented amount (picks/cash combined) of investment put into it.

And it is clearly not producing at a level you’d expect given that investment.

So the way I see it, it boils down to one of two possibilities.

1.) The defense has plenty of talented/quality players and they’re not being coached to maximize their potential. In this case Barry (and LaFleur or whoever is keeping Barry in charge) has to answer for this

2.) The defense is lacking in quality/talent/etc and the product is representative of that; in other words Barry has them producing at or near their best potential already. In this case it would suggest that we have either a.) “missed” on a concerning amount of high draft capital invested; b.) have made a number of bad cash investments in the defense; or c.) a bit of both. In this case Gute and whoever else is responsible for assembling the defensive (player) personnel needs held responsible.

In other words, someone HAS to be held accountable for the defenses’ repeated failings. Simply saying things like “we’re going to take a hard look at all angles” or other nonsensical empty phrases shouldn’t be allowed to cut it.

 

[BrokenArrow]

On the Packer side, things like the D and hanging on to coaches that even casual fans could see were lousy (e.g. special teams) have been a consistent problem for over a decade. The current staff was brought in to fix the team. They haven't. The D still plays soft and uses alignments that our own Xs and Ox guys know are wrong. The offense isn't necessarily dragged down by a new QB but still can't do the job. So, ya, it's not unthinkable to consider replacing the guys making the decisions.

Why not? It's working for the Bears. It took several decades but it seems to finally be working for the Lions. Let's trash it all and start over from scratch. Super Bowl within 3 years, guaranteed!

 

[Half Empty]

Actually, with just a couple of exceptions, the Bears have had at least a good D for a long time. They just haven't been able to find a major league QB.

Also, I would consider the leap from essentially "maybe get someone who can use the talent the team has more effectively" to "let's trash it all" to be somewhat over the top.

 

[OldSchool101]

Actually, with just a couple of exceptions, the Bears have had at least a good D for a long time. They just haven't been able to find a major league QB.

Also, I would consider the leap from essentially "maybe get someone who can use the talent the team has more effectively" to "let's trash it all" to be somewhat over the top.

Listen. I absolutely resemble the frustration I watched that game (And rewatched it) However I don’t like making grandiose proclamations about firing the entire staff. I think it’s presumptuous to think an entire different staff is going to come in here and make a complete team turnaround Inside 2-3 seasons and that’s at minimum. I think many of us still act like Detroit shouldn’t score on us, but they were a Top 5 scoring Offense last season and currently sit at Top 7. We didn’t play with enthusiasm until the second half and Detroit scored 7 pts across 2 Quarters in 3-4th Quarters.

Had our Offense gotten more than 2 yards on the opening drive?
Or handed Detroit the ball at our own 7 Yard line? For an easy
7 pts?
Our Offense didn’t do us any favors that first half and imo they share in that 3-27 start. The only 3 points our O scored was given to them by our Defense. I have 7 points given up attributed directly to our Offense for handing Detroit the ball 1st n goal. I could easily argue our D gave up a net 24 points, which isn’t horrific, just look around the league. That alone is a 20-27 or 23-27 type loss which I and others expected. Btw that Detroit D is ranked #13 overall they are not pushovers.

Matt is an intelligent and above average HC and they don’t grow on trees. I agree if MLF can’t generate a D turnaround into that 20 points per area? then I’m looking for a new DC though. We won’t know that until there’s 3-4 games remaining. I’m definitely not firing our HC over 1 game in week 4 sorry if you disagree, thats your prerogative and I respect it I just don’t agree.

 

[Half Empty]

Listen. I absolutely resemble the frustration I watched that game (And rewatched it) However I don’t like making grandiose proclamations about firing the entire staff. I think it’s presumptuous to think an entire different staff is going to come in here and make a complete team turnaround Inside 2-3 seasons and that’s at minimum. I think many of us still act like Detroit shouldn’t score on us, but they were a Top 5 scoring Offense last season and currently sit at Top 7. We didn’t play with enthusiasm until the second half and Detroit scored 7 pts across 2 Quarters in 3-4th Quarters.

Had our Offense gotten more than 2 yards on the opening drive?
Or handed Detroit the ball at our own 7 Yard line? For an easy
7 pts?
Our Offense didn’t do us any favors that first half and imo they share in that 3-27 start. The only 3 points our O scored was given to them by our Defense. I have 7 points given up attributed directly to our Offense for handing Detroit the ball 1st n goal. I could easily argue our D gave up a net 24 points, which isn’t horrific, just look around the league. That alone is a 20-27 or 23-27 type loss which I and others expected. Btw that Detroit D is ranked #13 overall they are not pushovers.

Matt is an intelligent and above average HC and they don’t grow on trees. I agree if MLF can’t generate a D turnaround into that 20 points per area? then I’m looking for a new DC though. We won’t know that until there’s 3-4 games remaining. I’m definitely not firing our HC over 1 game in week 4 sorry if you disagree, thats your prerogative and I respect it I just don’t agree.

Pretty much agree. Didn't say what you said I said.

 

[OldSchool101]

Pretty much agree. Didn't say what you said I said.

Then I take back everything bad I said about you! Including the silent remarks I almost said about your……. Just Forget I said anything Ok

 

[milani]

Listen. I absolutely resemble the frustration I watched that game (And rewatched it) However I don’t like making grandiose proclamations about firing the entire staff. I think it’s presumptuous to think an entire different staff is going to come in here and make a complete team turnaround Inside 2-3 seasons and that’s at minimum. I think many of us still act like Detroit shouldn’t score on us, but they were a Top 5 scoring Offense last season and currently sit at Top 7. We didn’t play with enthusiasm until the second half and Detroit scored 7 pts across 2 Quarters in 3-4th Quarters.

Had our Offense gotten more than 2 yards on the opening drive?
Or handed Detroit the ball at our own 7 Yard line? For an easy
7 pts?
Our Offense didn’t do us any favors that first half and imo they share in that 3-27 start. The only 3 points our O scored was given to them by our Defense. I have 7 points given up attributed directly to our Offense for handing Detroit the ball 1st n goal. I could easily argue our D gave up a net 24 points, which isn’t horrific, just look around the league. That alone is a 20-27 or 23-27 type loss which I and others expected. Btw that Detroit D is ranked #13 overall they are not pushovers.

Matt is an intelligent and above average HC and they don’t grow on trees. I agree if MLF can’t generate a D turnaround into that 20 points per area? then I’m looking for a new DC though. We won’t know that until there’s 3-4 games remaining. I’m definitely not firing our HC over 1 game in week 4 sorry if you disagree, thats your prerogative and I respect it I just don’t agree.

TNF is difficult for preparation of a young team and any coach. And he clearly did not have them ready although the Lions probably win anyway. If Rodgers had been the QB it would not have made a difference. Maybe 1 less INT and 3 more sacks. Now had we been facing the Bears we could sleep for a half and still win.

 

[OldSchool101]

TNF is difficult for preparation of a young team and any coach. And he clearly did not have them ready although the Lions probably win anyway. If Rodgers had been the QB it would not have made a difference. Maybe 1 less INT and 3 more sacks. Now had we been facing the Bears we could sleep for a half and still win.

yes. Until their Win % exceeds their Cubs (.512) they should just stay in HiBear nation

 

[PackerDNA]

Listen. I absolutely resemble the frustration I watched that game (And rewatched it) However I don’t like making grandiose proclamations about firing the entire staff. I think it’s presumptuous to think an entire different staff is going to come in here and make a complete team turnaround Inside 2-3 seasons and that’s at minimum. I think many of us still act like Detroit shouldn’t score on us, but they were a Top 5 scoring Offense last season and currently sit at Top 7. We didn’t play with enthusiasm until the second half and Detroit scored 7 pts across 2 Quarters in 3-4th Quarters.

Had our Offense gotten more than 2 yards on the opening drive?
Or handed Detroit the ball at our own 7 Yard line? For an easy
7 pts?
Our Offense didn’t do us any favors that first half and imo they share in that 3-27 start. The only 3 points our O scored was given to them by our Defense. I have 7 points given up attributed directly to our Offense for handing Detroit the ball 1st n goal. I could easily argue our D gave up a net 24 points, which isn’t horrific, just look around the league. That alone is a 20-27 or 23-27 type loss which I and others expected. Btw that Detroit D is ranked #13 overall they are not pushovers.

Matt is an intelligent and above average HC and they don’t grow on trees. I agree if MLF can’t generate a D turnaround into that 20 points per area? then I’m looking for a new DC though. We won’t know that until there’s 3-4 games remaining. I’m definitely not firing our HC over 1 game in week 4 sorry if you disagree, thats your prerogative and I respect it I just don’t agree.

While I agree with your post, I still have questions / doubts about MLF and his staff. I don't feel that there should be so many questions and doubts about a guy in his 5th year. It's a team in transition, so I'm just going to let things ride for this season. Barring the injury bug continuing to gnaw on us, I look at the schedule and still see a team that can win 10 games and make the playoffs with the expected improvement of the young guys both as individuals and in gelling together.

 

[Magooch]

TNF is difficult for preparation of a young team and any coach. And he clearly did not have them ready although the Lions probably win anyway. If Rodgers had been the QB it would not have made a difference. Maybe 1 less INT and 3 more sacks. Now had we been facing the Bears we could sleep for a half and still win.

That’s probably my biggest gripe with LaFleur though. I’m not hating - in general I really like the guy - but it feels like whenever it’s short notice, crunch time, big game, etc more and more often it’s feeling like he’s been out-coached.

Or maybe look at it from the opposite angle: how many big games and/or short-turnaround games can we look back on where we came away from a loss thinking “LaFleur really out-coached so-and-so, players just didn’t execute quite enough” or came away from a win thinking “that’s a coaching win, all credit to the coaching staff for putting the players in a position to come away with the W”? Maybe that’s not totally fair but it feels like often we have been bailed out by great individual performances and/or let down by coaching/scheme/preparation deficits.

 

[milani]

That’s probably my biggest gripe with LaFleur though. I’m not hating - in general I really like the guy - but it feels like whenever it’s short notice, crunch time, big game, etc more and more often it’s feeling like he’s been out-coached.

Or maybe look at it from the opposite angle: how many big games and/or short-turnaround games can we look back on where we came away from a loss thinking “LaFleur really out-coached so-and-so, players just didn’t execute quite enough” or came away from a win thinking “that’s a coaching win, all credit to the coaching staff for putting the players in a position to come away with the W”? Maybe that’s not totally fair but it feels like often we have been bailed out by great individual performances and/or let down by coaching/scheme/preparation deficits.

Correct.

 

[OldSchool101]

As someone on film breakdown said and I agree with them (JT Sullivan?)
Might’ve been Bukowski?
There were several plays that were instrumental in success/failure in that Lions game. We either had Jordan missing a checkdown for +7yards and taking a sack for -10 etc.. or Jordan just throws it away instead of forcing it
Or
Our WR was late getting to the gap in the Defense (mostly due to poor route running or poor timing). Etc.
Those plays put us in 3rd and forever vs 3rd n short. We had multiple short opportunities that a more established, veteran group would execute at a higher rate.

That’s not taking away from poor blocking. It doesn’t negate playing soft D with a smaller grouping of Box Defenders. It doesn’t imply we ignore our 10-11 penalties again.

Jordan threw for 200 yards in the second half. Often with Detroit players bearing down in his face. Jordan has risen up multiple times against adversity and that speaks to our O ceiling being there. It’s about doing it consistently for 3-4 quarters instead of 2. Our issues were as much or more a rusty version of non execution on the easier plays that caused issues with not moving the chains (controlling tempo).

There are usually 3-4 key plays in each half a game that stall an Offense. Those plays were more on not being synchronized than they were bad coaching in qtr 1-2. We actually played good Qtr 3-4 and our scored Detroit 20-7.
I agree that We have to allow a brand new Offense time. Aaron Rodgers had a more veteran, seasoned grouping when he came into our Offense and he won 6 games. Coaching has to do with intra season adjustments as much as in-game adjustments.

 

[OldSchool101]

The question I have is will games
5-8 see slight improvements over mistakes we made in games 1-4. I’m not as worried about the “talk” around town or even our raw record. We aren’t built for a deep playoff run right now I’m sorry upfront if that hurts anyone’s dreams.
Personally I want to know can we put fixes in place that noticeably reduce run yards allowed, penalty # allowed, negative plays allowed early, especially in possessions 1-2 etc. We need to see improvement in lane discipline, fundamental discipline and self inflictions. If we do that and go 7-10 vs a sloppier version of 9-8 I’m ok with that.
I like Montgomery. I’m here to tell you David Montgomery is not Dalvin Cook prime and I don’t care what people say that’s a fact. He has largely been a non factor agaunat GB until he got behind a top 5 OL in Detroit. He’s a good but not great RB We let him him have a field day because Detroit has a Big, Physical OL with 3-Day1 selections on it. They out blocked our smaller DL. That might mean increasing usage of LVN, Gary this next week. They’ll have 10 days of rest and a bye week afterwards, work them both like Junkyard Dogs and get that run D fixed