2020 Offseason

[4zone]

I'd also be hesitant to use Deebo as an example; Shanahan is probably the best offensive game planner in the NFL and I'm not sure many coaches could get that kind of play from a different rookie. Drafting a WR with elite upside would be great but the difficulty with rookie WRs making major impacts in their first years is one of the reasons I would prefer the Packers go for a veteran with upside at a reasonable price (maybe Robby Anderson?) rather than relying on more young players to support the offense.

What, you're saying out HC sucks and can't coach WRs? Why bother getting any then if all we're gonna do is waste them?

On a serious note: You look as much at a WR's experience with complex route trees as much as his overall skill set. A quick slot receiver who will know how to alter his routes AND is fast doesn't have to have 1K yards his first year. 40 catches and 500 yrds to go along with Adams and Lazard would be great for a 1st year. Throw in a few jet sweeps and some runs from the backfield and you have a great addition with immediate impact and huge upside. The problem with signing a top FA WR is the cost. The good ones are gonna charge you an arm and a leg. How much do you want to tie up in a #2 receiver? What other starters are you willing to give up when you can't afford them? WR's are gonna be more expensive than 3-4 DEs or ILBs. I'd rather fill the D in FA and WR in the draft than visa versa.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd rather fill the D in FA and WR in the draft than visa versa.

That might be a good strategy when you are looking for WR #3 or 4 (for 2020), but not #2. The Packers don't currently have a legit #2 WR and really not even a legit #3 for 2020, unless.......this, that and another thing happen.

So sure, you can go cheap, not try to sign a proven FA commodity, but your WR group might end up looking just like what we had this last season. I would rather see the Packers tie up $5M/year with someone that has a proven skill set similar to Cobb and not go another season lacking receiving weapons, us a 2nd or 3rd round on a rookie and hope he is productive in 2-3 seasons.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

The limited number of TRUE STUD ILB and DL with OTs deep but top tier limited I honestly keep running the idea that at #30 I think we could be sitting at that spot that 4th or 5th QB is drafted by trading with us in order to get that 5th year option. This could move us into the early 2nd potentially....along with our already 2nd...and build some equity to STILL trade into the 2nd given the depth and/or availability. Call me crazy but this is a draft I see A TON of 2nd gems potentially...and three picks in the 2nd isn't insane....

Ted Thompson sees this post and salivates more than usual.

 

[4zone]

For every Deebo Samuel there are 2 or more guys who didn't work out their very first year or even at all.

I never said that a first year WR couldn't produce in the NFL, history has shown that some have. However, if you look at the history of the Green Bay Packers, it is not very common for one to do so in their first year or two, so IMO, the Packers should not bank on it happening. Couple that with the fact that I believe that the Packers current WR group, with the exception of Adams, is way below average, it wouldn't be prudent to expect and rely on improving it with just the addition of a CFL WR and a high draft pick.

Bringing in a rookie who is expected to compete for the #3 or #4 position is one thing, but expecting him to instantly be your #2 starter, wishful thinking IMO, especially with the #30 pick or later.

Sharp - 55 for 791 (Pick #7)
Lofton - 46 for 818 (Pick #6)
Jennings - 45 for 632 (Pick #52)
Jones - 47 for 676 (Pick #78)
Adams - 38 for 446 (Pcik # 53)

Not too bad for 1st year guys. Average that out and you get 46 catches/yr for 672 yards/yr for Pick #39. Note that each of these 1st round picks outperformed the 2nd and 3rd round picks by a good chunk. I can live with 45 catches for 700 yards next to Adams, Lazard and an emerging Sternberger. Not to mention Jones out of the backfield yea???

 

[Dantés]

That might be a good strategy when you are looking for WR #3 or 4 (for 2020), but not #2. The Packers don't currently have a legit #2 WR and really not even a legit #3 for 2020, unless.......this, that and another thing happen.

So sure, you can go cheap, not try to sign a proven FA commodity, but your WR group might end up looking just like what we had this last season. I would rather see the Packers tie up $5M/year with someone that has a proven skill set similar to Cobb and not go another season lacking receiving weapons, us a 2nd or 3rd round on a rookie and hope he is productive in 2-3 seasons.

In addition to Cobb, I'd be interested to hear who you want them to pursue.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Sharp - 55 for 791 (Pick #7)
Lofton - 46 for 818 (Pick #6)
Jennings - 45 for 632 (Pick #52)
Jones - 47 for 676 (Pick #78)
Adams - 38 for 446 (Pcik # 53)

Not too bad for 1st year guys. Average that out and you get 46 catches/yr for 672 yards/yr for Pick #39. Note that each of these 1st round picks outperformed the 2nd and 3rd round picks by a good chunk. I can live with 45 catches for 700 yards next to Adams, Lazard and an emerging Sternberger. Not to mention Jones out of the backfield yea???

I like Lazard, but I think you are assuming he is a solid #2, I don't agree, at least I wouldn't rely on him being just that in 2020. Gute made that mistake with Allison and MVS and I think it backfired.

Also, without going back and tracking each guy that you list, I am going to guess that not all of them where drafted with the expectation/need to be an immediate contributor and thus saw reps as the #3 or #4 WR their rookie year? Now maybe that meant a few less snaps, but when you have better receivers around you (including TE's), odds are the defense is going to put less attention on that rookie and that helps with a rookies stats. Now when that rookie is being asked to be your #2 WR, they are going to get more attention, as well as the Packers are going to need more production out of them, given the lack of other receivers. Also, only 1 of those players you list spent his rookie season with Rodgers (Adams) and he didn't really light it up until what, his 3rd year? How long will a rookie need to get acclimated to the NFL and Rodgers?

Again, you and i just have different philosophies. You are relying on the fact that we will see improvement from current guys, as well as a rookie. I'm not saying that it can't happen, but I wouldn't fully rely on it to happen. I would hedge my bet by spending $5-7M on a slot receiver to make sure Rodgers has enough weapons, but still use a high pick on your future #2 WR.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In addition to Cobb, I'd be interested to hear who you want them to pursue.

I will tell you when we start seeing who is actually available. Free Agency isn't the only way to acquire a guy either, trades before and during the draft aren't out of the realm of possibility. I know people are saying that the crop of FA WR's stinks this year, but do you really know who is on the trade or chopping block by teams to save money?

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Cory Littleton and/or Joe Schobert are a couple of intriguing possibilities at ILB.

It's a fun time of year.

 

[4zone]

I like Lazard, but I think you are assuming he is a solid #2, I don't agree, at least I wouldn't rely on him being just that in 2020. Gute made that mistake with Allison and MVS and I think it backfired.

First, I think Lazard is a #3 who can make a big play or two per game with some lesser plays mixed in. As for Allison, he showed potential early on and I don't blame Gute for giving him a decent shot. MVS is still a new commodity that flashed in year 1 but had a down year in yr 2. Adams didn't break totally until yr 3 so MVS still has a shot at that. G-Mo may be on his final go round.

Of all we have now, ESB is an intriguing prospect that didn't get his yr 2. He seems more of a ready receiver than the others but he will have to step up big to hang around I suspect. If he does, he may actually be better than Lazard.

If we grab one, or even two WRs in the first two rounds, or one in the 1st in the draft and one in FA, that could cut us down to Adams, Lazard, the two new guys, the CFL signee (maybe) and ESB. That gives us at least 5 if not six with at least 3 different WRs going forward.

 

[Dantés]

I will tell you when we start seeing who is actually available. Free Agency isn't the only way to acquire a guy either, trades before and during the draft aren't out of the realm of possibility. I know people are saying that the crop of FA WR's stinks this year, but do you really know who is on the trade or chopping block by teams to save money?

It's not just that people are staying this FA wide receiver group stinks... it legit stinks. Even before people start getting resigned.

Cap casualties could be interesting. Taylor Gabriel is a possibility. He's worked with Petals before. Sammy Watkins will almost certainly be available. The Packers were in on him when he was a free agent.

But by and large, the more cap strapped teams in this league don't have a lot of space they can free up at the receiver position.

Stefon Diggs is a strong trade candidate, however Minnesota would never, ever send him to Green Bay.

All of that said, I'm not opposed to the idea of bringing in help in addition to drafting someone. I'm just curious who you have your eye on.

Tajae Sharpe could be reasonable depth at WR. Petals was his OC in 2018, so there's familiarity there. If they go with an older player, I'd be fine seeing Emmanuel Sanders come in on a one year deal. He obviously proved a good fit in a similar offense (SF).

If a guy like Hunter Henry hit the market, I'd much rather have him than any of these FA wide receivers.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

It's not just that people are staying this FA wide receiver group stinks... it legit stinks. Even before people start getting resigned.

Cap casualties could be interesting. Taylor Gabriel is a possibility. He's worked with Petals before. Sammy Watkins will almost certainly be available. The Packers were in on him when he was a free agent.

But by and large, the more cap strapped teams in this league don't have a lot of space they can free up at the receiver position.

Stefon Diggs is a strong trade candidate, however Minnesota would never, ever send him to Green Bay.

All of that said, I'm not opposed to the idea of bringing in help in addition to drafting someone. I'm just curious who you have your eye on.

Tajae Sharpe could be reasonable depth at WR. Petals was his OC in 2018, so there's familiarity there. If they go with an older player, I'd be fine seeing Emmanuel Sanders come in on a one year deal. He obviously proved a good fit in a similar offense (SF).

If a guy like Hunter Henry hit the market, I'd much rather have him than any of these FA wide receivers.

They could trade for a guy... Corey Davis may need a change of scenery. I'd be ok sending a 3rd for him if we miss out on a WR or even before the draft so it takes the pressure off.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

All of that said, I'm not opposed to the idea of bringing in help in addition to drafting someone. I'm just curious who you have your eye on.......

Agreed on bringing in help AND using a relatively high pick on a WR. Besides Adams, the WR cabinet is pretty bare. I have hope that Lizard, MVS and ESB pan out, but it would be wise to have a contingency plan if they don't. I think if Gute feels the need to upgrade the WR room with a Vet. he will find one in Free Agency or via a trade that he likes.

If a guy like Hunter Henry hit the market, I'd much rather have him than any of these FA wide receivers.

I would love to see Gute make a run for one of the top 3 TE's (Henry, Hooper or Ebron) if they aren't resigned. Henry's injury history is a bit of a concern, but I agree he could be a great signing. Can they afford to sign a #2 WR and a top TE FA? Probably, but it might mean parting ways with Linsley.

 

[Dantés]

Agreed on bringing in help AND using a relatively high pick on a WR. Besides Adams, the WR cabinet is pretty bare. I have hope that Lizard, MVS and ESB pan out, but it would be wise to have a contingency plan if they don't. I think if Gute feels the need to upgrade the WR room with a Vet. he will find one in Free Agency or via a trade that he likes.



I would love to see Gute make a run for one of the top 3 TE's (Henry, Hooper or Ebron) if they aren't resigned. Henry's injury history is a bit of a concern, but I agree he could be a great signing. Can they afford to sign a #2 WR and a top TE FA? Probably, but it might mean parting ways with Linsley.

If they cut Linsley, I would say they could realistically make two significant additions in addition to keeping Bulaga-- not massive (like 19M/season for Cooper or something), but significant.

So yeah, I think they would be able to sign Henry and a guy like Sanders. However, my ideal scenario would be Hunter Henry and Cory Littleton. Help for both sides.

 

[Dantés]

They could trade for a guy... Corey Davis may need a change of scenery. I'd be ok sending a 3rd for him if we miss out on a WR or even before the draft so it takes the pressure off.

A mid rounder for him would be ok, but why are the Titans dealing him?

 

[GreenNGold_81]

A mid rounder for him would be ok, but why are the Titans dealing him?

Last year of his contract, AJ Brown is their #1. Davis may not be in their future plans... They could do Humphries, Sharpe and a draft pick and make up for his loss pretty well.

 

[Dantés]

Last year of his contract, AJ Brown is their #1. Davis may not be in their future plans... They could do Humphries, Sharpe and a draft pick and make up for his loss pretty well.

Alternatively, Sharpe is a free agent and Humphries is more likely to be cut after this next season than to be a part of the Titans future plans at WR.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Cory Littleton and/or Joe Schobert are a couple of intriguing possibilities at ILB.

It's a fun time of year.

Littleton would be great but the Packers would HAVE to improve the dline because Littleton is very good in coverage but no great against the run.

 

[Dantés]

Littleton would be great but the Packers would HAVE to improve the dline because Littleton is very good in coverage but no great against the run.

That said, his legit coverage skills means you can play him next to a linebacker who is good against the run. He's the type of guy that would allow them to play a lot more with two true linebackers, instead of one linebacker and six defensive backs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Littleton would be great but the Packers would HAVE to improve the dline because Littleton is very good in coverage but no great against the run.

I think that is a given, no matter what they do at ILB. Much like the WR position, they have one solid player, Kenny Clark. But he shouldn't be expected to play a high percentage of snaps. I actually expect Gute to make a couple of moves on the DL. Both FA and draft.

• Montravius Adams: appears to be another busted high pick (3rd round).
• Kingsley Keke: could potentially step up in his second year.
• Dean Lowery: Meh, a decent backup, but I think the Packers overpaid to keep him.
• Tyler Lancaster: JAG nothing burger for me.

 

[PackAttack12]

If a guy like Hunter Henry hit the market, I'd much rather have him than any of these FA wide receivers.

If this is the case, you go get Henry and worry about the rest later.

 

[tynimiller]

IF Henry or Hooper hit FAs....that is the only way I'd possibly leave WR free agency alone. Roll forward with what we got, hope for continued growth out of Lazard, ESB and MVS. Picked up Begelton and add a pick or two in the draft. Wouldn't be a terrible route.

 

[PackAttack12]

IF Henry or Hooper hit FAs....that is the only way I'd possibly leave WR free agency alone. Roll forward with what we got, hope for continued growth out of Lazard, ESB and MVS. Picked up Begelton and add a pick or two in the draft. Wouldn't be a terrible route.

Either of those guys would make an enormous impact on the offense. Truth be known, though I'm valuing wide receiver over tight end, that doesn't apply with the potential of adding a really good tight end like those guys.

I'm optimistic about Jace, but not comfortable relying upon huge contributions from him in 2020.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

IF Henry or Hooper hit FAs....that is the only way I'd possibly leave WR free agency alone. Roll forward with what we got, hope for continued growth out of Lazard, ESB and MVS. Picked up Begelton and add a pick or two in the draft. Wouldn't be a terrible route.

TE definitely needs to be upgraded and it is really too bad that Sternberger was injured much of the season. I don't think his lost stats hurt us as much as the fact that he is still virtually an unknown commodity and gained very little NFL playing experience. If the coaches see him as the future #1 TE, how much do you spend on a top FA TE? Obviously, having 2 solid TE's is a good problem to have, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if the Packers signed a top TE FA and Jace ended up blossoming too.

All that said, I have to disagree with anyone who thinks the Packers WR position is going to improve a ton in 2020, which I feels it needs to, by the signing of a CFL player and a draft pick. ESB's injury was much like Sternberger's, we still don't know what we have in him. GMO won't be back, unless its a low guaranteed, near Vet min contract. MVS, has a lot to prove still. Lazard, I like him, but still think he isn't a #2 or even a #3 quality guy just yet.

 

[4zone]

Either of those guys would make an enormous impact on the offense. Truth be known, though I'm valuing wide receiver over tight end, that doesn't apply with the potential of adding a really good tight end like those guys.

I'm optimistic about Jace, but not comfortable relying upon huge contributions from him in 2020.

Ahhh, remembering the days when we had not only one good TE, we had TWO at the same time. Those were the days. . .

 

[Dantés]

TE definitely needs to be upgraded and it is really too bad that Sternberger was injured much of the season. I don't think his lost stats hurt us as much as the fact that he is still virtually an unknown commodity and gained very little NFL playing experience. If the coaches see him as the future #1 TE, how much do you spend on a top FA TE? Obviously, having 2 solid TE's is a good problem to have, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if the Packers signed a top TE FA and Jace ended up blossoming too.

All that said, I have to disagree with anyone who thinks the Packers WR position is going to improve a ton in 2020, which I feels it needs to, by the signing of a CFL player and a draft pick. ESB's injury was much like Sternberger's, we still don't know what we have in him. GMO won't be back, unless its a low guaranteed, near Vet min contract. MVS, has a lot to prove still. Lazard, I like him, but still think he isn't a #2 or even a #3 quality guy just yet.

Signing Henry would mean using a lot of 12 personnel. But he lends himself to that, because he can operate as a Y tight end, set up in-line. That's really not what Sternberger is. He's a move tight end, and was even used as an H back in 2019. So I wouldn't see any reason why they both couldn't be on the field plenty. Additionally, we have no idea if Sternberger can actually play. Relying on him and Tonyan as the main guys doesn't seem much different from relying on the in-house wide receivers.

And I think Henry would be a much better addition to the passing game than any of these names at WR. It's interesting that both teams in the Super Bowl feature TE's as their leaders in targets, receptions, and yards. Henry is one of the very few players in this league that I think has the potential to be in that top tier with Kittle and Kelce.