2019 UDFA NEWS and Signings

[Dantés]

The Packers could appease you and Captain by convincing Crosby to take a pay cut equal to Cole Tracy's salary and keep them both. Mason to kick off and anything 50+ or in the playoffs.

Of course you have that whole 2nd roster spot.

If they merely find a replacement between now and next offseason and let him walk in FA, I will be appeased.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Packers could appease you and Captain by convincing Crosby to take a pay cut equal to Cole Tracy's salary and keep them both. Mason to kick off and anything 50+ or in the playoffs.

Even if Crosby would agree to a minimum deal he would receive a base salary of $1.03 million. The Packers could sign two undrafted free agents for that money.

 

[gopkrs]

I actually don't care all that much whether Crosby stays or not because I am holding my breath whenever he kicks. But if we let him go and get a kicker that loses a few games for us; I will be pissed.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I actually don't care all that much whether Crosby stays or not because I am holding my breath whenever he kicks. But if we let him go and get a kicker that loses a few games for us; I will be pissed.

You mean like Crosby, who contributed to the Packers not winning four games last season???

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I actually don't care all that much whether Crosby stays or not because I am holding my breath whenever he kicks. But if we let him go and get a kicker that loses a few games for us; I will be pissed.

Sounds like what you got there is a mental conundrum

 

[sschind]

I actually don't care all that much whether Crosby stays or not because I am holding my breath whenever he kicks. But if we let him go and get a kicker that loses a few games for us; I will be pissed.

I've never felt "oh great, they are bringing in Crosby will he make it or won't he." sometimes I just get a feeling that things are not going the Packers way and wonder if he will miss but I have never felt he won't make it because he can't. I'm not sure if that makes sense or not. I'm not worried he will miss because he is Mason Crosby. Maybe that's just me trying to justify things but when Crosby comes in I expect him to make the kick.

 

[gopkrs]

You mean like Crosby, who contributed to the Packers not winning four games last season???

I did not say contributed. Someone pointed out that if you take away the Detroit game; his % is actually up there with the new young kickers. Also, if you take away that one horrible year; his lifetime % will be better. We have had some awfully badly managed special teams over the past several years. Could have contributed. So I am saying if we turn this into a fiasco like we did with the punting situation a few years ago; I will be pissed.

 

[gopkrs]

Sounds like what you got there is a mental conundrum

Just saying it is Gute's responsibility for what happens.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just saying it is Gute's responsibility for what happens.

Not his responsibility for your feelings

I think the first time Sam Ficken trots out there with 2 seconds on the clock, to kick a game winning 40 yarder, we all will be holding our collective breaths, but if he misses, I am blaming Captain!

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Too many posts to catch up with quotes, but regardless, Mason Crosby is our guy for the foreseeable future, at least through the 2019 season at worst. The best we could hope for is they release him just to re-sign him again to a cheaper but longer contract. Based on the current state of the topic I'm one of the few who doesn't hold my breath for him to make a FG, I'm comfortable with a guy who's solidly 4-for-5 when he's out on the field. Unfortunately, he does rank at the bottom half of the league, and while I don't think the Ficken and Tracy moves were to appease any fans, it was just an idea worth taking for a spin. But in my honest opinion, Mason Crosby is the best kicker AVAILABLE to the Packers right now; and I really hope he doesn't give you what you all think you want, because we'll be sending "I miss you, come home" tweets to Crosby's Twitter account.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I did not say contributed. Someone pointed out that if you take away the Detroit game; his % is actually up there with the new young kickers. Also, if you take away that one horrible year; his lifetime % will be better. We have had some awfully badly managed special teams over the past several years. Could have contributed. So I am saying if we turn this into a fiasco like we did with the punting situation a few years ago; I will be pissed.

It doesn't make any sense to ignore Crosby having missed field goals to make the numbers better fit your narrative though.

I think the first time Sam Ficken trots out there with 2 seconds on the clock, to kick a game winning 40 yarder, we all will be holding our collective breaths, but if he misses, I am blaming Captain!

I don't want the Packers to enter the season with Ficken as their kicker as in my opinion he doesn't present an adequate replacement for Crosby. There should be other options available though.

Too many posts to catch up with quotes, but regardless, Mason Crosby is our guy for the foreseeable future, at least through the 2019 season at worst. The best we could hope for is they release him just to re-sign him again to a cheaper but longer contract.

Geez, why on earth would it be a good idea to sign Crosby to another long-term contract??? It's mind-boggling how many Packers fans are ready to move on from a draft pick after only one season but advocate to extend a kicker who has been below average for most of his career.

But in my honest opinion, Mason Crosby is the best kicker AVAILABLE to the Packers right now; and I really hope he doesn't give you what you all think you want, because we'll be sending "I miss you, come home" tweets to Crosby's Twitter account.

I guarantee there will be at least one rookie kicker posting a better field goal percentage than Crosby in 2019.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I hope he turns out to be great, but given that he was getting paid minimum for a second year UDFA and the Giants, a 5-11 team last year, didn't keep him on a 90 man roster, says quite a bit to me. But hey, new team, new life for him. Hope he makes the best of it.

When a guy gets cut from a 90 man roster, and he is clearly not a cap casualty, the first question I ask myself is, "what is his injury history?"

Here's a report from late last season:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...son-ending-knee-injury-dancing-in-locker-room

"According to Rapoport, Davis 'suffered a dislocated patella while dancing in the locker room.' Perhaps it was not so "slight".

 

[Mondio]

That's not a serious injury. Should be just fine.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

When a guy gets cut from a 90 man roster, and he is clearly not a cap casualty, the first question I ask myself is, "what is his injury history?"

That, along with coach-ability, attitude, etc. popped into my head. This was a guy the Giants had a year to evaluate and was on the 53 man roster and active for at least 7 games. Hard to imagine that the Giants found 37 new players that they felt were better than what Davis was or could be.

Anyway, he is a Packer and let's hope they saw something special in the guy.

 

[Dantés]

Just stack up as many capable returners as you can find and let someone outcompete the field and win the job.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I guarantee there will be at least one rookie kicker posting a better field goal percentage than Crosby in 2019.

The draft is in the rear view mirror, so the question before the court is how many undrafted rookie kickers will make a roster.

Here are some facts to consider:

• There were 23 qualifying kickers with a better FG % than Crosby last season.
• 10 of those guys were drafted: Gould, Carlson, Sanders, Hopkins, Butker, Succop, Gostkowski, Elliott, Bullock and Janikowski, leaving 13 undrafted kickers in that group
• The years of experience of those 13 undrafted kickers are as follows:

1 year: Bagdley, Joseph
2 years: Rosas, Fairbairne
3 years: Lutz
4 years: Myers, Lambo
7 years: Tucker, Zuerlein
10 years: Gano
12 years: Prater
17 years: Bryant
23 years: Vinatieri​

So, there's a good chance one or two undrafted kickers better than Crosby will earn a job.

That there were no qualifying undrafted kickers last season with 5 or 6 years of experience (and only one drafted in Hopkins) could be the result of poor draft classes, injuries, lack of staying power, retirements or simply worse records than Crosby last season, I could not say.

If we say one or two undrafted kickers will earn jobs, that is still problematic given how many vie for jobs coming from all kinds of places, such as Marist, North Texas, Southern Oregon or Missouri Western, and the number of teams who are in the hunt for upgrades or cap savings.

Further, you run the risk of that the guy you pick, even if you draft him as the Vikings did with Carlson, sh*ts the bed in week 2 compelling you to cut him (only to see him show up elsewhere hitting 17 of 18).

Futher yet, if I'm an undrafted kicker of some pedigree with multiple camp offers, there are two kinds of teams I'd prefer to avoid: (1) teams with a decent vet with little cap savings on his contract (not the case here) where your job is camp body or (2) an outdoor cold weather team (that's Green Bay).

Looking for a Crosby replacement is a worthy endeavor, but it is far from easy, and even if you find your guy you could get whipsawed as in the Carlson example. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Dantés]

The draft is in the rear view mirror, so the question before the court is how many undrafted rookie kickers will make a roster.

Here are some facts to consider:

• There were 23 qualifying kickers with a better FG % than Crosby last season.
• 10 of those guys were drafted: Gould, Carlson, Sanders, Hopkins, Butker, Succop, Gostkowski, Elliott, Bullock and Janikowski, leaving 13 undrafted kickers in that group
• The years of experience of those 13 undrafted kickers are as follows:

1 year: Bagdley, Joseph
2 years: Rosas, Fairbairne
3 years: Lutz
4 years: Myers, Lambo
7 years: Tucker, Zuerlein
10 years: Gano
12 years: Prater
17 years: Bryant
23 years: Vinatieri​

So, there's a good chance one or two undrafted kickers better than Crosby will earn a job.

That there were no qualifying undrafted kickers last season with 5 or 6 years of experience (and only one drafted in Hopkins) could be the result of poor draft classes, injuries, lack of staying power, retirements or simply worse records than Crosby last season, I could not say.

If we say one or two undrafted kickers will earn jobs, that is still problematic given how many vie for jobs coming from all kinds of places, such as Marist, North Texas, Southern Oregon or Missouri Western, and the number of teams who are in the hunt for upgrades or cap savings.

Further, you run the risk of that the guy you pick, even if you draft him as the Vikings did with Carlson, sh*ts the bed in week 2 compelling you to cut him (only to see him show up elsewhere hitting 17 of 18).

Futher yet, if I'm an undrafted kicker of some pedigree with multiple camp offers, there are two kinds of teams I'd prefer to avoid: (1) teams with a decent vet with little cap savings on his contract (not the case here) where your job is camp body or (2) an outdoor cold weather team (that's Green Bay).

Looking for a Crosby replacement is a worthy endeavor, but it is far from easy, and even if you find your guy you could get whipsawed as in the Carlson example. Be careful what you wish for.

Finding someone who would be significantly better than Crosby would be far from easy, though possible. But finding someone to merely be as good as he's been 2017-18 for far less money? That won't be difficult, in my opinion.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Looking for a Crosby replacement is a worthy endeavor, but it is far from easy, and even if you find your guy you could get whipsawed as in the Carlson example. Be careful what you wish for.

Good post and the last paragraph pretty much sums it up for me.

For those who have been married/dated the same person a good portion of their lives, a very similar analogy when you think to yourself "is there something better out there for me?"

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Finding someone who would be significantly better than Crosby would be far from easy, though possible. But finding someone to merely be as good as he's been 2017-18 for far less money? That won't be difficult, in my opinion.

I'm fine with that, but I hardly ever hear the people wanting to replace Crosby acknowledge the fact that there is also a relatively high risk of replacing him with someone who is worse. IF you don't believe me, just look at the Vikings and Bears in the last 5 or so years.

 

[Dantés]

I'm fine with that, but I hardly ever hear the people wanting to replace Crosby acknowledge the fact that there is also a relatively high risk of replacing him with someone who is worse. IF you don't believe me, just look at the Vikings and Bears in the last 5 or so years.

I don't really agree with you. But not because I think there's a great kicker hiding under every rock. I disagree because of how poor Crosby has been of late. Yeah, the Bears have been in a fix lately (for example), but the guy they cut, Cody Parkey, missed exactly the same number of kicks as Crosby and was basically his equal in cold weather. It's not like they were way worse off-- they just apparently have higher standards or less loyalty.

You also have to consider that even if the did get worse in FG%, they would still be getting worse for cheaper. So in a worst case scenario, you take a small step back from Crosby and sign some quality depth or have more space to allocate towards signing/resigning a starter. Is that really a big net loss to the team?

And lastly, literally every time you replace an old, underperforming, overpaid player, there is technically the risk that you could get worse. I don't understand the logic of keeping bad, expensive players just because you're worried about the possibility of having worse, cheap players. You have to try to get better.

That said, I don't think they've brought in a viable replacement this offseason, so I don't think Crosby is going anywhere. Which is fine. But I'll be ticked if they give him a new deal.

I would actually like it if they brought Parkey into camp and let him compete with Crosby.

To be totally honest, I think the only reason that Crosby is getting this kind of consideration is that he's been around a long time. But being below average for a really long time in one place doesn't really do anything for me.

 

[Mondio]

Somebody has to win the job or in a season or 2 we're going to have to just give it to someone. I'd rather have someone win it now. But there's a difference between keeping someone who's been thru it and been largely dependable and someone who hasn't been in it very long. Crosby has had a couple stretches that really bring his numbers down, but by and large in his career, there aren't too many times he's missed where I thought, he should have made that one outside of those few bad stretches.

I will say that even though he seemed to recover percentage wise last year after that Detroit debacle, the way he made many of those kicks left me feeling less than confident. There were some not so pretty ones that found their way in. More so than I remember in the past. The end comes for everyone, and it is time to start actively looking hard for his replacement.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Here's something I do not understand about the NFL place kicking game.

Place kicking is often compared to the golf swing for good reasons which I won't enumerate. In golf, there are swing gurus who work on an ad hoc basis. Many PGA Tour players have "their guy" at the top of their speed dial. If a golfer misses a cut or two and senses he has developed a mechanical flaw, he'll pay his guy some hundreds of dollars per hour, plus travel expenses if necessary, for a day or two of range consultation. He might even pay a top dog a retainer to get priority.

Not many NFL special teams coaches come from a kicking background. Kicking gurus do exist, such as Doug Blevins, a facinating story in itself:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2012/10/07/doug-blevins-hall-of-fame-nomination/1617861/

It seems, however, that such guru involvement is through engagement by kickers in the offseason or when trying to work their way into a job. However, I've never heard of one being brought in by a team when something goes wrong. Ideally, that guru or his team would observe practices and review game tape to evaluate all aspects of the kicking game: blocking, snap, hold and stroke. Misses are not always the kicker's fault; the margin for error in execution with all parties concerned is very small.

Instead, it seems, this aspect of the game is treated as either minor and not worthy of such attention or additional cost, or it's treated as a mystery left up to the kicker to solve or get fired. It makes addressing place kicking problems largely a trial-and-error affair, with games lost in the process.

 

[Dantés]

Somebody has to win the job or in a season or 2 we're going to have to just give it to someone. I'd rather have someone win it now. But there's a difference between keeping someone who's been thru it and been largely dependable and someone who hasn't been in it very long. Crosby has had a couple stretches that really bring his numbers down, but by and large in his career, there aren't too many times he's missed where I thought, he should have made that one outside of those few bad stretches.

I will say that even though he seemed to recover percentage wise last year after that Detroit debacle, the way he made many of those kicks left me feeling less than confident. There were some not so pretty ones that found their way in. More so than I remember in the past. The end comes for everyone, and it is time to start actively looking hard for his replacement.

He has been below 80% six times (out of 12 seasons) and below 85% eight times. I don't understand why this is acceptable. He has only been in the top half of the league in FG % four times, and in the top 10 only once (10th, in 2016). He has never touched 90% in 12 seasons. His average finish is 22nd overall.

He has the 3rd highest cap hit among all kickers. The two guys ahead of him were 8.6% and 16% better than him respectively. They were 13% and 16.2% better than him respectively in 2017.

I don't get it.

 

[HardRightEdge]

But finding someone to merely be as good as he's been 2017-18 for far less money? That won't be difficult, in my opinion.

It will appear easy at first, but if the guy starts missing kicks early in his tenure, that Carlson moment, then you've got a problem. It's more common for teams to go with a kicker and end up firing him (or wanting to but without a viable alternative) before the year is out as it is to hit on a rookie undrafted kicker.

If you're looking for the cap savings and not better performance, the least risky place to start is with a guy with some NFL experience. The Packers brought in one of those guys, albeit with quite limited experience.

Otherwise, there are a few recognizable names on the street, though the savings wouldn't be as great as with a rookie or other minimum salary guy. Some of those recognizable names may be holding out for desperation money come pre-season failures:

https://walterfootball.com/freeagents2019KP.php

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm still not a fan of using %FG's made as the only measuring stick in evaluating a Kicker. Do we only look at a punters Gross punting average? So many more variables to look at, but if people only want to keep using that one statistic in making their decisions, that is their prerogative. But I'm still going to look at:

• Kickoff duties
• Kicking under pressure/game winners/playoffs
• XP's
• circumstances behind each miss (LS, Holder, blocking issue?)
• ability to get their game back on track (mental game)
• experience

Probably a lot more that I missed. However, if you are going to say a first year guy is a "better kicker" than someone who has been in the league for 12 years and you are going to base it on the fact that he made 1 or 2 more FG's in a single season, I'm not buying it.