2019 NFL Rule Changes That Would Improve The Game Big Time

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's going to be pretty amusing when a receiver gets held with no flag, the ball is thrown his way, the challenge flag is thrown, and the replay clearly shows it was illegal contact before the ball left the QBs hand, not interference. "The call on the field stands." Given Rodgers likes to throw where he sees illegal contact it probably won't take too long.

Well a few things might prevent that from happening too often. First, will QB's actually see illegal contact while they are holding the ball and scoping the field? Second, even if they do and they elect to throw the ball in hopes of winning a challenge, is it worth burning a challenge on a 5 yard penalty and first down?

I haven't read anything yet on if they have changed the # of challenges a coach will be allowed or if in the final 2 minutes of the half/game, the booth will be looking at all possible PI calls/no-calls? I would be fine increasing the # of challenges by 1 or you aren't penalized a challenge if your challenge is upheld, with a limit of 4 successful challenges per game. However, I would never want to see a situation when challenges are unlimited and/or a team isn't somehow penalized for an unsuccessful challenge. I also hope the booth isn't instructed to slow the game down by stopping after each play in those final 2 minutes to make sure a PI was missed.

There are going to be mistakes made by the refs in the normal course of the game, a coach should be limited to just which ones are important enough to use one of his limited challenges.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Well a few things might prevent that from happening too often. First, will QB's actually see illegal contact while they are holding the ball and scoping the field? Second, even if they do and they elect to throw the ball in hopes of winning a challenge, is it worth burning a challenge on a 10 yard penalty and first down?

Sure, Rodgers throws at guys he sees being held and gets pretty disgusted when he doesn't get the call.

My point was that illegal contact is not challengeable, only interference, according to the reports. It won't be long before some coach throws a challenge flag thinking an illegal contact was in fact interference. The play will be scutinized from 5 different angles where it will be revealed that the receiver was mugged before the ball left the QBs hand. The play will stand. And everybody will see how the ref missed the obvious mugging and go nuts that the challenge does not apply.

That will be funny, not ha-ha funny, kind of sad-funny if that's a thing.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Sure, Rodgers throws at guys he sees being held and gets pretty disgusted when he doesn't get the call.

My point was that illegal contact is not challengeable, only interference, according to the reports. It won't be long before some coach throws a challege flag thinking an illegal contact was in fact interference. The play will be scutinized from 5 different angles where it will be revealed that the receiver was mugged before the ball left the QBs hand. The play will stand. And everybody will see how the ref missed the obvious mugging and go nuts that the challenge does not apply.

That will be funny, not ha-ha funny, kind of sad-funny if that's a thing.

I get your point now Also, I edited my previous post, illegal contact is only a 5 yard penalty and first down. Coaches will need to learn the new rules and trust their own eyes or those of their coaches in the press box. Personally, I don't really care what they decide can be challenged, as long as their is a reasonable set limit on the # of challenges a coach is allowed. If the coach thinks its important enough to challenge and he wants to burn one of his limited challenges to get the call correct, so be it.

BTW, I never liked the "automatic first down" on illegal contact. There is a big difference in awarding a team that on a 3rd and 5 play as opposed to a 3rd and 26 play.

 

[Mondio]

BTW, I never liked the "automatic first down" on illegal contact. There is a big difference in awarding a team that on a 3rd and 5 play as opposed to a 3rd and 26 play.

So on 3rd and 26 if i'm getting beat, I just tackle you. I get to live another down and it's only 3rd and 21 now. Hopefully this time I'm more prepared as a defender and don't get beat off the line.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Sounds like the Coaches all pretty much united and collectively told the owners that this rule change had to be made. Bill Belichick being one of the most vocal ones in the process.

The coaches being in favor of the rule change doesn't make it any good though.

Would LOVE to see them do away with ties. Actually, that should go hand in hand with both teams getting a possession. Remove the time limit in OT and play till there’s a winner. Way too many ties last year, and really, no one goes home happy with that, especially the fans.

With the NFL focusing on player safety there's absolutely no way the league agrees to play overtime until there's a winner in the regular season.

I haven't read anything yet on if they have changed the # of challenges a coach will be allowed or if in the final 2 minutes of the half/game, the booth will be looking at all possible PI calls/no-calls?

Coaches will still be allowed to challenge the same number of plays with the booth reviewing all plays in the last two minutes of a half.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The coaches being in favor of the rule change doesn't make it any good though.

Nor does it necessarily make it bad. I suppose the large majority of coaches who supported the change and the 98% of owners who voted in favor of it, all could be wrong.

Coaches will still be allowed to challenge the same number of plays with the booth reviewing all plays in the last two minutes of a half.

Thanks for the update on that, wasn't sure if they would tinker with the number of challenges.

 

[Cheese Headed Monster]

The coaches being in favor of the rule change doesn't make it any good though.



With the NFL focusing on player safety there's absolutely no way the league agrees to play overtime until there's a winner in the regular season.

I definitely would not say there is "no way". Pandora's box is open.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So on 3rd and 26 if i'm getting beat, I just tackle you. I get to live another down and it's only 3rd and 21 now. Hopefully this time I'm more prepared as a defender and don't get beat off the line.

You can try, but I would just out run you.

So in other words, you are more comfortable with a penalty that says "no matter how many yards the offense had to gain, they now deserve a first down, because we are quite sure the pass would have been thrown to that player, he would have caught it and he would have picked up all the necessary yardage for a first down."

Honestly, I don't think any penalty should necessarily be attached with "automatic first down", including personal fouls.

I feel this way because depending on the circumstance, it is changing the severity of the penalty. Getting penalized for illegal contact on 1st and 10 is way different than getting penalized on 4th and 20.

By the current thinking, offensive holding at the line of scrimmage, should assume a tackle for a loss would have been made. So why not march the ball back 5/10 yards and the down isn't played over?

 

[Mondio]

and setting up a situation where a defender can just tackle receivers on certain downs and distances shouldn't be a result of the rule either. I'm fine with spot fouls and auto first downs on illegal contact. PI it is supposed be only if the ball is catchable. If they deem it uncatchable there is no foul. With illegal contact or holding, there's no way to know, because they committed a foul that prevented them from even running the route within the rules in the first place. If it's 3rd and 7, I can play inside position to take away any slants. The defense can play differently up front and on the off chance I get beaten outside I can just tackle him for another shot at 3rd and 2. This makes them at least try and play straight up defense instead of changing it drastically on certain down and distances.

I'm also not a fan of having all contact be penalties either. I'm more than fine with some contact down the field and I'd rather leave it to the discretion of the referees and spend more time getting them all on the same page on what is acceptable and what is not rather than this constant tweaking of wording in the rules and everything else to ty and be perfect. it's not perfect. Call the game and let's get on with it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I definitely would not say there is "no way". Pandora's box is open.

I guarantee there's no way the league agrees to play overtime until there's a winner because of player safety issues.

Honestly, I don't think any penalty should necessarily be attached with "automatic first down", including personal fouls.

That would result in defenders making illegal contact at the first sign a pass could be completed. But don't worry, at least it could be reviewed going forward.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That would result in defenders making illegal contact at the first sign a pass could be completed. But don't worry, at least it could be reviewed going forward.

The first part of your comment is what many seem to say during conversations concerning making PI calls only a 15 yard penalty, not a spot foul. Seems to work well at the college level.

Illegal contact penalties, from what I gather, won't be something a coach can challenge under the proposed new rules, so not sure what the second part of your comment means?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Illegal contact penalties, from what I gather, won't be something a coach can challenge under the proposed new rules, so not sure what the second part of your comment means?

Actually I was just being a ****

 

[Mondio]

Change all the rules. PI is spot, illegal contact is 5 yards and no auto first. Expand replay. So it's 3rd and 6 LCB is beaten so tackles his guy on a double move and the QB throws the ball that way, but it sails harmlessly up the field as the WR is on the ground already.

Ref calls PI and 1st down. But defense can see he was tackled before the ball was thrown, so it's illegal contact, not PI. The ball wasn't in the air, it can't be PI. So they throw a challenge flag. They win, because it can't be pass interference unless the ball is thrown. Illegal contact isn't reviewable. no first down for you and they pick up the flag. Can't call a penalty on replay that wasn't there before. So not only do they get screwed from the front, they get screwed on the backend too LOL instead of 3rd and 1 it's 4th and 1 because they can't give them an illegal contact penalty from replay.

So fans have outrage because this was the Super Bowl and they change the rules to allow illegal contact to be reviewed too and then we're back to any touching past 5 yards is a flag, or isn't it? and more learning how to interpret the rules again and every year we recognize the game less and less. Thanks replay.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Change all the rules. PI is spot, illegal contact is 5 yards and no auto first. Expand replay. So it's 3rd and 6 LCB is beaten so tackles his guy on a double move and the QB throws the ball that way, but it sails harmlessly up the field as the WR is on the ground already.

Ref calls PI and 1st down. But defense can see he was tackled before the ball was thrown, so it's illegal contact, not PI. The ball wasn't in the air, it can't be PI. So they throw a challenge flag. They win, because it can't be pass interference unless the ball is thrown. Illegal contact isn't reviewable. no first down for you and they pick up the flag. Can't call a penalty on replay that wasn't there before. So not only do they get screwed from the front, they get screwed on the backend too LOL instead of 3rd and 1 it's 4th and 1 because they can't give them an illegal contact penalty from replay.

So fans have outrage because this was the Super Bowl and they change the rules to allow illegal contact to be reviewed too and then we're back to any touching past 5 yards is a flag, or isn't it? and more learning how to interpret the rules again and every year we recognize the game less and less. Thanks replay.

I think in your scenario it would be 4th and 6. Whatever, doesn't really matter. I think anyone can make up scenarios on both sides of the argument for and against replay. Depending on what side of the debate you are on, one makes more sense than another.

For me, its a matter of giving a coach a limited number of chances to correct a mistake that he feels could potentially have a big impact on the outcome of the game. Mistakes are made by officials during every game and they don't always balance themselves, as some like to think.

Whether you like or don't like replay and the rule changes surrounding it, the NFL isn't the only organization that has been kept busy trying to keep up with technology and the way it effects how things can be judged, refereed, etc. Pretty much every sport is making changes. Police vehicles and officers themselves are equipped with cameras. Some traffic intersections or speed zones are policed electronically; run a red light or speed, snap of a picture and you are mailed a ticket.

So why does the NFL have to make these changes? I don't think its necessarily just to improve the game, more than it is meant to quiet the backlash of what technology has shown the audience many times, mistakes are being made by the officials, mistakes that sometimes could be rightfully considered game altering. The media and fans see these mistakes replayed over and over, not just during the game, but for a long period of time after via just about every social media service known.

Which brings up my final point. Technology for decent instant replay has been around a pretty long time, but it wasn't until multiples camera angles, 24/7 sports channels and internet sites replaying all the blown calls and the media and fans taking up the debate on how each blown call effects the outcome, that the NFL has taken so much heat when a blown call impacts a game in what might be perceived in an unfair way. 30 years ago, a blown call....no big deal, in most cases it was forgotten about an hour after the game.

Now if you are a fan who doesn't want to see the mistakes replayed over and over, then you may want to listen to the game on the radio and stay off the internet after. If you think mistakes are part of the game because they balance out in the long run and replay is stupid, I think you are going to be disappointed watching Sporting events, replay is here to stay and will probably be used more and more in a variety of ways, in attempt to get the calls correct.

 

[Mondio]

You said it yourself, it's about quieting the backlash. you know what I say to the screaming backlash? Suck it. But hey, let's review the PI and not the holding that allowed the Pass to be thrown in the first place right? it's about getting the game correct? LOL

How about those that can't accept it's an imperfect game officiated by imperfect people go watch something else? football has been around and survived just fine without those people. let me know how much consensus there is on the PI calls this year even after review. LOL I bet it will be SOOOO different.

Red lights and football have zero in common. You're either in the intersection on a red light or you're not. You're moving thru, or you're not. Simple. Same as 12 men on the field. if they start calling PI by the language in their rules, I will be done watching. If I want to watch a score fest, I'll go to a 7 dollar arena football game. Myself, I'd rather watch football. So basically we still have people making a judgement call, but now they're not on the field and not a part of the game. Great.

I'm still signed up for the officials they train with what they expect within the rules, not by the letter of them, and get rid of the ones that can't call a consistent game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm still signed up for the officials they train with what they expect within the rules, not by the letter of them, and get rid of the ones that can't call a consistent game.

I think this is a point we can agree on.

But no matter how good the officials are, they are human and will not always see things the same way that the viewing audience can now view them.

I understand and actually respect your stance that Football is "an imperfect game officiated by imperfect people". Problem is, less and less of its fans feel that way, as well as there is a lot of money riding on the results. So there has been and probably will continue to be a big push by many to try and at least correct the obvious mistakes that can be reasonably corrected. But yes, you are correct, there is a probably a tipping point as to what is too much oversight of games and when fans like yourself say "enough is enough".

 

[Mondio]

i don't care about the money on the results. the gamblers can get bent. The athletes, by and large can accept the situations they're in far better than fans. We, They, any sportsman has dealt with bad calls and knows full well, the greatest impact on the outcome was themselves, not the officials. What's an "obvious" mistake? I don't consider what happened at the ned of the Saints game "obvious" as I don't think that pass had any possibility of being completed outside of their being NOBODY on the field to defend it. So while contact was made, I think the correct non call that would have essentially ended the game was just fine. The Receiver would have had to come back thru the defender anyway. That pass should be interecepted 9 out 10 times. I'm more than fine with the offense not being rewarded for that. Turns out they had 10 other chances to win the game, they couldn't, because they weren't better.

anyway, and if they're going to review PI, why not holding? people don't even realize how much this game will change if they actually uphold reviews by the letter for those judgement calls. and if they don't apply replay to them that way, it's not going to give people the perception that it's doing any good. They're painting themselves into a corner. Appease a fan base that most of never even played past youth flag levels if at all and ones that care more about fantasy and betting lines and they'll keep alienating the fans of the actual game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

ones that care more about fantasy and betting lines and they'll keep alienating the fans of the actual game.

I see you are now recognizing the money trail of the decisions

I say that a bit tongue in cheek, but there is some validity to it.

bottom line....its a billion dollar business and most of those profiting from it want to do whatever keeps the cash flowing. If they could make another billion dollars by wearing pink socks, they probably would.

Like I said before, these aren't just knee jerk reactions to necessarily try and make the game better, they are carefully thought out business decisions to try and keep the game as profitable as they can.

 

[Mondio]

I have no illusions as to what drives their decisions but I think it is a rather knee jerk reaction, because without it happening in the Saints/Rams game, I don't think making PI reviewable would even have been a consideration this offseason.

This has the potential to be even worse than the roughing the passer BS last year. They put it in place because they can't have their stars out of the game like Rodgers and then we get burned again by them applying horribly to Clay and we tie instead of win. and though the league stands behind it, it becomes such a folly, they just stop calling it leaguewide just after that. I can see a lot of people hoping for this replay, to wish they never had. It's either going to be a judgement call, which IMO it should be, and that judgement should be at the sole discretion of the official on the field calling it that way all game long. Review his performance and make changes as necessary

Start taking the judgement calls out of his hands, why put him on the field in the first place, just call it all from the eye in the sky and when their judgement doesn't match "your's" and the betting lines are swayed and the payouts switch sides and the lens gets bigger, then what? You know what brought down boxing? people didn't believe it was legitimate anymore. Wait until big time calls are made by officials outside of the camera's eye and they don't jive with a lot of other people's. OR they call it by the book, and nobody is going to want that.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

For me, its a matter of giving a coach a limited number of chances to correct a mistake that he feels could potentially have a big impact on the outcome of the game. Mistakes are made by officials during every game and they don't always balance themselves, as some like to think.

Whether you like or don't like replay and the rule changes surrounding it, the NFL isn't the only organization that has been kept busy trying to keep up with technology and the way it effects how things can be judged, refereed, etc.

Which brings up my final point. Technology for decent instant replay has been around a pretty long time, but it wasn't until multiples camera angles, 24/7 sports channels and internet sites replaying all the blown calls and the media and fans taking up the debate on how each blown call effects the outcome, that the NFL has taken so much heat when a blown call impacts a game in what might be perceived in an unfair way.

Now if you are a fan who doesn't want to see the mistakes replayed over and over, then you may want to listen to the game on the radio and stay off the internet after. If you think mistakes are part of the game because they balance out in the long run and replay is stupid, I think you are going to be disappointed watching Sporting events, replay is here to stay and will probably be used more and more in a variety of ways, in attempt to get the calls correct.

I don't have any issues with the NFL using replay to overturn blown calls and would even be in favor of putting a chip in the ball to correctly spot it.

Pass interference is and will always be a judgement call and allowing officials to review it doesn't make it any better but result solely in a different set of eyes maybe judging it differently.

I don't consider what happened at the ned of the Saints game "obvious" as I don't think that pass had any possibility of being completed outside of their being NOBODY on the field to defend it. So while contact was made, I think the correct non call that would have essentially ended the game was just fine.

I'm against pass interference being reviewable as well but there's no denying that was a terrible non-call.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't have any issues with the NFL using replay to overturn blown calls and would even be in favor of putting a chip in the ball to correctly spot it.

I have been hoping this would happen for years! This seems to be one of the most controversial things not talked about, the true spot of the ball. I can't tell you how often I rewatch the end of the play and see the ball being spotted incorrectly. I have no doubt the technology is there, just do it. Careful though, some might think a refs judgement of the spot is the best!

Pass interference is and will always be a judgement call and allowing officials to review it doesn't make it any better but result solely in a different set of eyes maybe judging it differently.

I'm against pass interference being reviewable as well but there's no denying that was a terrible non-call.

I would be dead set against play being stopped after each and every pass play to determine with replay if some kind of interference existed. I get the feeling that some in their minds think that the new rule is going to create that situation? Coaches are going to have to choose their challenges wisely. As you and most fans know, sometimes that call is very judgmental and because of that, I doubt its going to be overturned as often as most think it will be. I also doubt a coach is going to waste one of his few challenges on hoping that in the judgement of people back in New York, the call made on the field was wrong. If I am a coach, I am making sure that its clear and obvious the call was missed, not just a bit off on judgement, before throwing that red flag.

I guess we will see how it all turns out in 2019, but I honestly don't think you are going to see close calls overturned and coaches will learn that quickly.

My one caveat with my statement, I want to know how the last 2 minutes of the halves are going to be handled with PI, when the review is taken out of the coaches hands and up to the box. I hope they only stop for a review if there is a blatantly obvious miss, like that in the SB. Yeah, Yeah, I know...how does one define "blatantly obvious"