2019 - Defensive Line Discussions

[Sanguine camper]

Given the lack of talent after Clark, expecting the olb's to fill in at d line positions is only viable on obvious passing situations. The problem is now those obvious passing situations will likely be much less frequent. Expect a heavy dose of running right at Adams. Lowry, & Burks. If the Packers pass rush inproves it can't replace a porous run defense. The Packers had the 23rd run defense last year. Giving more snaps to the clowns after Clark won't help fix a big problem with a porous run defense.

 

[OldSchool101]

Given the lack of talent after Clark, expecting the olb's to fill in at d line positions is only viable on obvious passing situations. The problem is now those obvious passing situations will likely be much less frequent. Expect a heavy dose of running right at Adams. Lowry, & Burks. If the Packers pass rush inproves it can't replace a porous run defense. The Packers had the 23rd run defense last year. Giving more snaps to the clowns after Clark won't help fix a big problem with a porous run defense.

Someone. HardRightEdge?? Posted a recent segment about an interesting fact and I can’t find now.
Last year the GB DL averaged like 2.2 DL per play. Pettine does a lot of blitzes from various formations, so I think we see a similar mix this year. If that number is accurate, we have a laundry list of pass rush specialists who can both be disruptive and thwart the run. I really think the more recent scheme changes employed by Pettine made Daniels become somewhat expendable.
Again, I think many fans are putting more concern there at Daniels departure than necessary. I feel like he’s been on a slight decline since that dominant game he had in Seattle a few years ago.

I feel more like we will still have to cut several more solid D Lineman due to us being too heavy at talent
(albeit largely unrealized) so to speak. You’ll likely see at least 1 slide to the PS along with a similar situation at RB, a WR, OL, CB, QB etc..

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Gute blowing his cap like crazy. Already making bad decisions cutting core guys to pay the piper.
Daniels was what? 30 years old? 31?

I'm not saying we resign him next year. But we Havnt replaced him yet for this year.

Clark island will fail just like raji island failed. The. Gb brass completely disregards the value of the Big Boys on the dline. Its their glitch.

Fire Daniels? Bank on keke and Adams breaking out? I don't even know half these guys names yet. You expect me to be comfortable Dropping Daniels before camp just to resign Lowry early?

Makes no sense unless you plan to have Clark island. And 4 olbs running around. And expect the tweener safetys to clean up the mess.
Good olines own that. For good olines thats going to be like beating up on their little brother. And this is the plan we go in with.... Good grief.

I just looked at the 31-0 loss to the lions week 17.... Adams and Lowry were starting. And Lancaster was at nose. The only difference from that to our starting dline now is Clark....

And what in the hell happens when he needs a rest or gets injured?!?

It didnt have to be this way. Savage trade up wasn't needed. Didnt need Amos and a big splash rookie....
We didnt need two big splash olbs ,and our highest pick in years ,to go to another de/olb hybrid. We didnt need three, on top of our sack leader fackrell.... Hoarding safetys and olbs like I hoard vintage redlines... Its ridiculous!

But seriously. That first round should have went to oline and dline. End of story. After the free agents we picked up....

Our lines are weak. No depth. And losing Daniels to save cap was a terrible move.... Keep Mathews and Cobb??? Drop Daniels? We have a big ol change of strategy since last year?

You fail to understand that the Packers and most teams for that matter use only two defensive linemen for the majority of plays.

With Daniels regressing and Lowry, Lancaster and Adams ascending it was time to move on, especially considering the move saved $8 million in cap space.

If the Packers pass rush inproves it can't replace a porous run defense. The Packers had the 23rd run defense last year.

The Packers were actually a respectable 13th in yards allowed per attempt.

I feel more like we will still have to cut several more solid D Lineman due to us being too heavy at talent
(albeit largely unrealized) so to speak.

Of course the Packers will have to cut some defensive linemen before the start of the season as they definitely won't keep nine on the roster. While Brown and Looney might have a chance to make the roster both Sagapolu and Simon are long shots to be on the team.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Given the lack of talent after Clark, expecting the olb's to fill in at d line positions is only viable on obvious passing situations. The problem is now those obvious passing situations will likely be much less frequent. Expect a heavy dose of running right at Adams. Lowry, & Burks. If the Packers pass rush inproves it can't replace a porous run defense. The Packers had the 23rd run defense last year. Giving more snaps to the clowns after Clark won't help fix a big problem with a porous run defense.

Someone can help me here. I think the run defense last year was way better than 23rd.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Someone. HardRightEdge?? Posted a recent segment about an interesting fact and I can’t find now.
Last year the GB DL averaged like 2.2 DL per play. Pettine does a lot of blitzes from various formations, so I think we see a similar mix this year. If that number is accurate, we have a laundry list of pass rush specialists who can both be disruptive and thwart the run. I really think the more recent scheme changes employed by Pettine made Daniels become somewhat expendable.
Again, I think many fans are putting more concern there at Daniels departure than necessary. I feel like he’s been on a slight decline since that dominant game he had in Seattle a few years ago.

I feel more like we will still have to cut several more solid D Lineman due to us being too heavy at talent
(albeit largely unrealized) so to speak. You’ll likely see at least 1 slide to the PS along with a similar situation at RB, a WR, OL, CB, QB etc..

Don't know the average per play but I can say that Tom Oates quoted FootballOutsiders as showing the Packers played with three down linemen on only 23 percent of their defensive snaps last year.

 

[mradtke66]

Someone can help me here. I think the run defense last year was way better than 23rd.

23rd is the raw yardage.

We finished 13th in yards per carry, which is quite respectable.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Someone can help me here. I think the run defense last year was way better than 23rd.

It might be interested to note that the Packers ranked 20th in yards per rushing attempt allowed (4.55) during the first 10 games of the season with Daniels playing. The unit significantly improved after he was lost for the season (3.89, 7th).

 

[mradtke66]

The other possibility is that we're trending to a more 4-3 base. Or true hybrid.

Between both Smiths, Lowry, and Gary, we have 4 guys would would not be out of place with their hand in the dirt playing DE in a 4-3.

Lowry and Z-D would project to Strong-Side, Gary to either, Preston Smith more or less exclusively Weak-side.

Hell, Fackrell even projects well to SOLB in a 4-3, as he plays the run adequately for the position and is pretty okay dropping into coverage.

I'm not advocating for this. And it largely doesn't even matter, as the league is a nickel-as-base-defense these days, and we'll be in 4-2/2-4 nickel most of the time. Just making the observation.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The other possibility is that we're trending to a more 4-3 base. Or true hybrid.

Between both Smiths, Lowry, and Gary, we have 4 guys would would not be out of place with their hand in the dirt playing DE in a 4-3.

Lowry and Z-D would project to Strong-Side, Gary to either, Preston Smith more or less exclusively Weak-side.

Hell, Fackrell even projects well to SOLB in a 4-3, as he plays the run adequately for the position and is pretty okay dropping into coverage.

I'm not advocating for this. And it largely doesn't even matter, as the league is a nickel-as-base-defense these days, and we'll be in 4-2/2-4 nickel most of the time. Just making the observation.

The team played with 2 down linemen far more often than they played with 3 last season and they just cut one of their better pass rushing linemen. I don't think they're going to a 4-3 anytime soon. I fully expect them to play with 2 linemen most of the time with Zadarius moonlighting as a DT on obvious passing downs.

 

[mradtke66]

The team played with 2 down linemen far more often than they played with 3 last season and they just cut one of their better pass rushing linemen. I don't think they're going to a 4-3 anytime soon. I fully expect them to play with 2 linemen most of the time with Zadarius moonlighting as a DT on obvious passing downs.

I think you're misinterpreting the point I'm trying to make. Or I stated it poorly.

Our OLBs are larger than they have been in the past. As such, it's easier to project them lining up in a 4-3. At least in some circumstances.

I'm more hammering home the idea that EDGE players are more interchangeable than some might realize. And that if we were to suddenly become a 4-3 tomorrow, we'd likely line up the same personnel as a 3-4, just that one more guy would have his hand in the dirt.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think you're misinterpreting the point I'm trying to make. Or I stated it poorly.

Our OLBs are larger than they have been in the past. As such, it's easier to project them lining up in a 4-3. At least in some circumstances.

I'm more hammering home the idea that EDGE players are more interchangeable than some might realize. And that if we were to suddenly become a 4-3 tomorrow, we'd likely line up the same personnel as a 3-4, just that one more guy would have his hand in the dirt.

Ok, then I agree with your point. Packers have basically been that kind of defense for a while with Perry and Peppers being fairly large OLBs; even Matthews was about the size of some speed rushing DEs.

I think the reality of the NFL nowadays is that base defense doesn't really exist like it used to. Teams are basically in nickel most of the time and that means either a lineman or a linebacker is removed from the defense. In the Packers' case I'm guessing that will usually be a lineman since, as you point out, the Packers now have multiple linebackers with the size of DEs (and some DTs).

 

[gbgary]

Your entire premise is wrong. Daniels was not the 2nd best DL even last year. He was arguably already perhaps the 4th or 5th best. Lowry, lancaster and adams had passed him up. You are thinking of 2015 Mike Daniels and not the current version. Add in the factors: a new DC, new scheme, Daniels injury, his age, and FA acquisitions into the equation.


I would have liked to have kept him for his leadership value, but the salary cap savings are too important for the future.

uuummm no. this was about the cap and nothing else. he was their 2nd best guy imo. everyone's just hoping adams can be that good. we'll see. i hope he is.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

uuummm no. this was about the cap and nothing else. he was their 2nd best guy imo. everyone's just hoping adams can be that good. we'll see. i hope he is.

The Packers don't solely depend on Adams to make up for Daniels' departure though with Lowry and Lancaster in the mix as well.

In addition you continue to ignore that the team's run defense actually improved after Daniels suffered a season ending injury in 2018. He wasn't the team's second best defensive lineman anymore.

 

[Mondio]

I liked Daniels, I probably liked him more than a lot of people recently, BUT this team is very capable of replacing him. The loss isn't going to be dramatic and likely won't even be noticed by week 4. The defense will be better this year than last, i'm pretty confident and outside of the strange and catastrophic there is plenty of capable depth on the defensive line.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I liked Daniels, I probably liked him more than a lot of people recently, BUT this team is very capable of replacing him. The loss isn't going to be dramatic and likely won't even be noticed by week 4. The defense will be better this year than last, i'm pretty confident and outside of the strange and catastrophic there is plenty of capable depth on the defensive line.

I think it's a little optimistic to believe that Adams will be as strong a pass rusher as Daniela was last year. Daniels was disappointing against the run but he was one of the best pass rushing tackles in the NFL last year. Now, Zadarius should help with that loss but it's possible that depth at tackle might be an issue on passing downs next year. Not a certainty, but certainly a possibility. I'm not against cutting Daniels, they need money to sign Clark to an extension, but Daniels was a very good rusher and those don't just grow on trees.

 

[tynimiller]

I think it's a little optimistic to believe that Adams will be as strong a pass rusher as Daniela was last year. Daniels was disappointing against the run but he was one of the best pass rushing tackles in the NFL last year. Now, Zadarius should help with that loss but it's possible that depth at tackle might be an issue on passing downs next year. Not a certainty, but certainly a possibility. I'm not against cutting Daniels, they need money to sign Clark to an extension, but Daniels was a very good rusher and those don't just grow on trees.

Going to need statistical proof of such a claim please...or please inform what constitutes one of the best in your opinion?

 

[gbgary]

The Packers don't solely depend on Adams to make up for Daniels' departure though with Lowry and Lancaster in the mix as well.

In addition you continue to ignore that the team's run defense actually improved after Daniels suffered a season ending injury in 2018. He wasn't the team's second best defensive lineman anymore.

you're being captainOBVIOUS here.

btw...

Going to need statistical proof of such a claim please...or please inform what constitutes one of the best in your opinion?

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1158381150483681280?s=19

 

[Mondio]

I think rushing the passer is going to belong to smith, smith, clark and gary a lot more than it would have daniels or will adams. If Daniels is what he was prior to injury, obviously he's a decent player. I think it's apparent he's not recovered OR they figured they had better running with a different philosophy than what Daniels gave them. Regardless, I don't think GB is in dire straights because they let Daniels go. I liked him, but had GB signed him to a 9 million dollar contract for 1 year from the Lions, I'd not be liking that move.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Going to need statistical proof of such a claim please...or please inform what constitutes one of the best in your opinion?

9th best interior pass rusher last year per PFF. Pass rush productivity of 7.3 was sixth best among interior rushers.

I could add some sarcasm if you'd like but I think the above explains my point pretty well.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think it's a little optimistic to believe that Adams will be as strong a pass rusher as Daniela was last year. Daniels was disappointing against the run but he was one of the best pass rushing tackles in the NFL last year. Now, Zadarius should help with that loss but it's possible that depth at tackle might be an issue on passing downs next year. Not a certainty, but certainly a possibility. I'm not against cutting Daniels, they need money to sign Clark to an extension, but Daniels was a very good rusher and those don't just grow on trees.

While I agree that Adams most likely won't be as productive rushing the passer as Daniels was overall the Packers will be able to put more pressure on opposing quarterbacks this season after bringing in the Smiths and Gary.

you're being captainOBVIOUS here.

It should be obvious but there are several posters bringing up that the Packers solely depend on Adams to replace Daniels (see the post I quoted above).