Refereeing in Playoff Games

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Every year after these play-off games the fans, media, and players are complaining about the refs.
Even if you agree or not, sometimes I'm glad the Packers aren't subject to these loses because
of stupid calls.
Then the league comes forward the next day and sees how wrong they were.

And here comes Goodell
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...aints-outcome-in-theory/ar-BBSwk7z?li=BBnb7Kz

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Refs blow calls in just about every game, it isn't just the playoffs. A blown call in the playoffs is probably more magnified, because it could potentially be viewed as something that eliminated a team. However, the same could be said by the team that misses the playoffs by one game and a blown call in the first game of the season gave them that loss.

 

[brandon2348]

The league is becoming a joke.

 

[Poppa San]

The league is becoming a joke.

So stop watching. Reffing isn't much better or worse than it was 25 years ago. Just better / more replays between plays. With less knowledgeable announcers leading the ignorant analysis.

 

[brandon2348]

So stop watching. Reffing isn't much better or worse than it was 25 years ago. Just better / more replays between plays. With less knowledgeable announcers leading the ignorant analysis.

I might have too with the direction of how things are going. I understand there will always be bad calls and it will never be perfect but what I'm seeing now is a pure control of game flow be the reffs to produce fake results.

Everyone got tired of blowout Super Bowls, playoff games etc etc but I'd rather have that then some "manufactured outcome" just to create more and more drama.

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

I might have too with the direction of how things are going. I understand there will always be bad calls and it will never be perfect but what I'm seeing now is a pure control of game flow be the reffs to produce fake results.

Everyone got tired of blowout Super Bowls, playoff games etc etc but I'd rather have that then some "manufactured outcome" just to create more and more drama.

Great Point.
Always is the rules that change from year to year that those refs have to much to look for.

I told my wife, I could not play this game again if I was a lot t younger, like how can you tackle/stop a player without holding????

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I might have too with the direction of how things are going. I understand there will always be bad calls and it will never be perfect but what I'm seeing now is a pure control of game flow be the reffs to produce fake results.

Everyone got tired of blowout Super Bowls, playoff games etc etc but I'd rather have that then some "manufactured outcome" just to create more and more drama.

I would disagree that games are being "fixed" if that is what you are implying. However, I agree that the NFL has been in tough spot in justifying what the refs are doing on the field and in their defense, I would argue that technology and the internet has probably magnified the problems 100 fold.

Sure we could go back to the way games were once played, no reviews, just play ball and the calls all stand as called. The problem with that is technology. Fans would view it as you are now, cheating, collusion, etc. The talk of blown calls for each game would increase dramatically. Anyone with a recording device would have a field day pointing them out and coming up with theories of why the refs blew the call and how it changed the outcome of the game.

Technology and the internet has made "getting it right" paramount to fans. How do you get it right when some of the calls are subjective, plays happen in the blink of an eye, refs vision is blocked, etc? Right now, instant replay is about the best avenue to do that. It isn't perfect and it isn't going to correct every missed call, but if coaches are allowed to challenge calls (any call or non-call) on a limited basis, then at least it comes down to trying to coach out the calls you think are the most critical.

I would never want to see a game where after every play, a call comes from upstairs "#92 was offside, replay the down". However, if a coach wants to use one of his limited challenges on the play, because he feels it was a critical missed call, let him.

We will never see a perfectly refereed game, but at least continue to give referees and coaches the ability to correct the ones that could really matter.

 

[brandon2348]

I would disagree that games are being "fixed" if that is what you are implying. However, I agree that the NFL has been in tough spot in justifying what the refs are doing on the field and in their defense, I would argue that technology and the internet has probably magnified the problems 100 fold.

Sure we could go back to the way games were once played, no reviews, just play ball and the calls all stand as called. The problem with that is technology. Fans would view it as you are now, cheating, collusion, etc. The talk of blown calls for each game would increase dramatically. Anyone with a recording device would have a field day pointing them out and coming up with theories of why the refs blew the call and how it changed the outcome of the game.

Technology and the internet has made "getting it right" paramount to fans. How do you get it right when some of the calls are subjective, plays happen in the blink of an eye, refs vision is blocked, etc? Right now, instant replay is about the best avenue to do that. It isn't perfect and it isn't going to correct every missed call, but if coaches are allowed to challenge calls (any call or non-call) on a limited basis, then at least it comes down to trying to coach out the calls you think are the most critical.

I would never want to see a game where after every play, a call comes from upstairs "#92 was offside, replay the down". However, if a coach wants to use one of his limited challenges on the play, because he feels it was a critical missed call, let him.

We will never see a perfectly refereed game, but at least continue to give referees and coaches the ability to correct the ones that could really matter.

Once again the game will never be perfect but what I saw yesterday was so so far from reaching a level of perfection. Both games too. This season has opened my eyes to a lot. I've always been a bad calls or no calls are part of the game and they usually offset but what I am seeing is far different. I never got that wrapped up into the officiating part of it but when I watch these games it just has a feeling that the reffs control the game more then the players. I mean 90 percent of these games are coming down to call or no call on the field and a kicker trotting out to the field to decide the game. It feels like pulling a slot machine.

You have a large amount of people calling this league fake and comparable to pro wresting. While I don't believe the play is fake the NFL isn't doing themselves any favors in how some of this stuff is playing out.

 

[Half Empty]

Referring (to what) in Playoff Games?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You have a large amount of people calling this league fake and comparable to pro wresting. While I don't believe the play is fake the NFL isn't doing themselves any favors in how some of this stuff is playing out.

But that is the conundrum that I was pointing out. Technology has made getting calls correct not only very important to many fans but demanded. The human eye and brain are the same as they were 30 years ago, so how do you get the calls correct if you don't use the technology, that is broadcasting the game, to do it? Sure, it has slowed the game down and for some, feels like the refs have more say in games, but didn't they have that say before, only then it was just one ref.

This isn't directed at you, but anyone complaining that the refs missed the PI call in the Saints game, better never complain about using instant replay.

 

[brandon2348]

But that is the conundrum that I was pointing out. Technology has made getting calls correct not only very important to many fans but demanded. The human eye and brain are the same as they were 30 years ago, so how do you get the calls correct if you don't use the technology, that is broadcasting the game, to do it? Sure, it has slowed the game down and for some, feels like the refs have more say in games, but didn't they have that say before, only then it was just one ref.

This isn't directed at you, but anyone complaining that the refs missed the PI call in the Saints game, better never complain about using instant replay.

You shouldn't "need technology" to make that call though. The reff was literally standing right there. In fact there was two officials in plain sight. That's why there is so much egg on the face of the NFL here. This was not some controversial catch or interpretation of the rules. It was blatant pass interference and helmet to helmet on a defenseless receiver on the same play with the game on the line. You had multiple fouls

Completely unexcusable any way you look at it.

 

[swhitset]

I realize that spelling is not supposed to be an issue in this forum... but there has to be limits. Can we get the title of this thread to actually say what I’m assuming it is supposed to be..”Refereeing” ?


The current title
“Referring” means something completely different... and yes.. I was a bit confused when I first woke up this morning and read it.

 

[swhitset]

Referring (to what) in Playoff Games?

I posted the above before reading your post....

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I realize that spelling is not supposed to be an issue in this forum... but there has to be limits. Can we get the title of this thread to actually say what I’m assuming it is supposed to be..”Refereeing” ?


The current title
“Referring” means something completely different... and yes.. I was a bit confused when I first woke up this morning and read it.

So what people are saying......we need instant replay for title threads now?

 

[Half Empty]

Only if you want them understandable

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You shouldn't "need technology" to make that call though. The reff was literally standing right there. In fact there was two officials in plain sight. That's why there is so much egg on the face of the NFL here. This was not some controversial catch or interpretation of the rules. It was blatant pass interference and helmet to helmet on a defenseless receiver on the same play with the game on the line. You had multiple fouls

Completely unexcusable any way you look at it.

While I agree with you, it was a very inexcusable miss by the ref(s). However, it happens and because of that, it should be correctable after the fact. Go through the history of anything, human error, minor or egregious, has resulted in all sorts of wrongful outcomes. The ability to reverse that outcome is something you don't often have a chance to do in life, in Football you could.

 

[brandon2348]

While I agree with you, it was a very inexcusable miss by the ref(s). However, it happens and because of that, it should be correctable after the fact. Go through the history of anything, human error, minor or egregious, has resulted in all sorts of wrongful outcomes. The ability to reverse that outcome is something you don't often have a chance to do in life, in Football you could.

This isn't just a horrific no call that decided who goes to the Super Bowl. It's actually been going on all season and been building. For it to culminate to what just happened is almost that the NFL thinks it has gotten smarter then the "casual fan" and it might of backfired on them. This is so ridiculous that most 12 year olds could of made that call.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This isn't just a horrific no call that decided who goes to the Super Bowl. It's actually been going on all season and been building. For it to culminate to what just happened is almost that the NFL thinks it has gotten smarter then the "casual fan" and it might of backfired on them. This is so ridiculous that most 12 year olds could of made that call.

I'm not debating that it was a horrible call and it almost sounds like you are debating that point?

My point was that the NFL has a tool to fix these things, short of firing every ref who blows a call, they have instant replay. In this situation, replay wouldn't be allowed to correct it, I happen to think it should be. If the coach wants to use one of his limited challenges.

I am sure that the ref who blew the call has already received death threats and other over the top obnoxious life changing things in the last 20 hrs. But he is human, I doubt he intentionally blew the call, I doubt he isn't qualified for the job, he just plain messed it up, just like you and I do when we blow a stop sign or drink one too many.

We can pretend that this kind of mistake should never happen, but it will happen again. Correct the response to it.

 

[brandon2348]

I'm not debating that it was a horrible call and it almost sounds like you are debating that point?

My point was that the NFL has a tool to fix these things, short of firing every ref who blows a call, they have instant replay. In this situation, replay wouldn't be allowed to correct it, I happen to think it should be. If the coach wants to use one of his limited challenges.

I am sure that the ref who blew the call has already received death threats and other over the top obnoxious life changing things in the last 20 hrs. But he is human, I doubt he intentionally blew the call, I doubt he isn't qualified for the job, he just plain messed it up, just like you and I do when we blow a stop sign or drink one too many.

We can pretend that this kind of mistake should never happen, but it will happen again. Correct the response to it.

My only issue with that is slowing the game up more then it already is but if it stops anything like that from happening again I would be in favor of it.

 

[sjb12681]

Both games last night had glaring, poorly reviewed mistakes by the refs that had a game altering impact.

The obvious one in the saints game, which to me was the worst one since our replacement ref fail Mary play.

The pats had 2, although much more subtle: the phantom roughing the passer that extended the pats scoring drive late in 4th, and the edleman whiffed punt overturned on replay.

It just seems like most times they bring in the NFL officiating analysy, they come out hat in hand like "yup, they got that wrong". A LOT.

I don't think the NFL is explicitly asking refs to alter games, but they are becoming far too invloved in the end result. They are meant to be invisible on field and have now regularly become a factor within the game.

I don't know what a solution is. They have created many rules out of player safety concern, which isn't going away. In the process, they have whittled such a narrow definition on every minutia of the game while allowing broad in game personal interpretation by the ref on the call, these outcomes almost can't be avoided. It's also why it seems to get worse every year: as they add/alter rules to "fine tweak" them, they more narrowly define and hence more broadly create room for missed/blown calls.

Either way, the NFL is walking a fine fine line here...

They see a bump in viewership by having these games stay closer and more of a "toss-up" late into the game, but eventually, they are going to have their fanbase turn on them if it begins to feel forcibly altered.

Yesterday *FELT* forcibly altered.

That's just my take.

 

[brandon2348]

Both games last night had glaring, game altering outcomes. The obvious one in the saints game, which to me was the worst one since our replacement ref fail Mary play.

The pats had 2, although much more subtle: the phantom roughing the passer that extended the pats scoring drive late in 4th, and the edleman whiffed punt overturned on replay.

It just seems like most times they bring in the NFL officiating analysy, they come out hat in hand like "yup, they got that wrong". A LOT.

I don't think the NFL is explicitly asking refs to alter games, but they are becoming far too invloved in the end result. They are meant to be invisible on field and have now regularly become a factor within the game.

I don't know what a solution is. They have created many rules out of player safety concern, which isn't going away. In the process, they have whittled such a narrow definition on every minutia of the game while allowing broad in game personal interpretation by the ref on the call, these outcomes almost can't be avoided. It's also why it seems to get worse every year: as they add/alter rules to "fine tweak" them, they more narrowly define and hence more broadly create room for missed/blown calls.

Either way, the NFL is walking a fine fine line here...

They see a bump in viewership by having these games stay closer and more of a "toss-up" late into the game, but eventually, they are going to have their fanbase turn on them if it begins to feel forcibly altered.

Yesterday *FELT* forcibly altered.

That's just my take.

I agree. It just has a rotten feel to it.

Yes, almost every play ends with players looking at the officials. It's out of control.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My only issue with that is slowing the game up more then it already is but if it stops anything like that from happening again I would be in favor of it.

To quote my Mother...."You can't have your cake and eat it too."

Commercials slow the game down, fans running out on the field, getting the clock right, etc. I am fine slowing the game down a limited number of times (# of challenges) to not have these kinds of mistakes, potentially effect the outcome of the game.

I think of the Clay Matthews penalty on Cousins earlier in the year. Had that been reviewable, game is probably over. I would have been fine waiting 2 minutes to get that right.

 

[Packer96]

75 on the Chiefs was almost 10 yards down field on the screen pass they scored on. Shouldn't be hard to miss that one. I'm not a Pats fan, but I admire them, we are watching greatness, we'll never see this type of dominance again.

 

[OldSchool101]

I like the referees. I think they should keep on referring

 

[sjb12681]

I've got nothing against the pats either. I don't think anyone can say the NFL prefers BB, TB or the pats in general be in another Sb.

If anything, I think MORE of those types of non calls are appropriate (even if it means more plays similar in nature to the one in saints game).

There was a point last night where the refs were involved in something like 12 of 14 plays at the end of the game, including a play stoppage that lasted 45 seconds to confirm the game clock was exactly what it was before they stopped the play and huddled up.

My point is that It's gotten out of hand that these refs are making regular, repeated, game altering injections into games.

With that being said, it won't go away. Doing that would mean opening up players to injury that would then open up the Shield to litigation.

Won't happen .they will be fine with status quo as long as eyes keep tuning in.