Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Resources
Latest reviews
Search resources
Members
Current visitors
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Open Football Discussion
Green Bay Packers Fan Forum
Packers' defensive line looks to rise to another level
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="mradtke66" data-source="post: 780198" data-attributes="member: 4199"><p>Correct here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>1/2 right. Yes, it might collapse the pocket. But if you aren't threatening around the edge, the QB is not under duress. Edge rush + Interior rush are related. </p><p></p><p>If all you have is edge rush, the QB can step up. If all you have is interior rush, the quarterback can just drop back a little further and/or escape contain and again not be threatened.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, when I read that, all I hear is: Step 1, steal underpants, Step 3, profit. And no details what step 2 actually is.</p><p></p><p>Yes, those three linemen + Perry and Matthews in base is an excellent run defense. That's kind of the point of a 3-4--you play bigger linemen to clog up the middle and play two ends. Ideally, the front 5 in a 3-4 is bigger than the front 5 of a 4-3 in total. We get to 5 in each by comparing including 4-3's SOLB and both 3-4 OLBs. </p><p></p><p>But again, one passing downs, those bigger, slower guys are at a disadvantage. Across the board, NT, DT, 3T, 5T, 7, Wide9, the pass rusher will be smaller than the run stuffer. Bigger is great in the run game, when the defense wins by merely saying, "No, you move me." Pass rushing is attacking a gap. And rushing the passer is more tiring. Dragging that extra weight will tire guys out faster. </p><p></p><p>Compared to OTs, that weight is an advantage. An OT in pass protection is catching. He uses that weight to anchor and he doesn't have to move as far, for as long, or as quickly. OT is largely about efficiency of movement.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A sideline to sideline linebacker isn't going to help in pass rush.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not that I don't value the power, it's that compromises have to be made. Friction is a thing, budgets are a thing, etc etc.</p><p></p><p>I would prefer 300 pound DEs that can run a 4.5 40. But those guys are somewhere between "non-existent" and "stupid rare." I'd happily have a prime Reggie at EDGE in any scheme. Ditto Peppers or JJ Watt. But there are only so many of those guys period, let alone those guys playing at the same time, let alone on the same team. So you start to compromise and optimize: take what is shown to be useful at each position and be willing to give up what isn't strictly required.</p><p></p><p>Interior linemen are bigger to take abuse in the running game. They also tend to be shorter, in the hopes they have better leverage against double teams. Speed isn't generally important at all. This gets more and more extreme the closer you get to the center. A 0-NT will be the biggest, a 1-NT might be a little smaller, 3Ts regularly slip under 300 pounds. Also, you need to adjust your weight preferences in general. Your talk of 320, pass rushing DEs is crazy. The only one I've seen close to that was Pickett in 2010. And he was no pass rusher--he was a run-down blocker eater. 280 is huge DE in 4-3 schemes.</p><p></p><p>As you get further away from the center, straight weight isn't as important, because the job changes. Outside contain, keeping the quarterback in the pocket, and getting your hands up in the air, makes length/height more important. Part of that is also how rushing works on the edge vs. the interior. Interior rushing is wrestling, the outside it boxing. OTs, with the long arms and kickstep can neutralize bigger, slower players from the second the ball is snapped. Inside hands is the key. If the OT can get to your chest plate, he's won. If you're 320 and 6'1", you likely have some stubby arms. He's 315, 6'5". Get that chest plate, lock arms, and that rusher won't be pushing a damn thing. Size be damned. Thus, you want your EDGE guys to also have long arms to counter the OT's long arms.</p><p></p><p>More dead-horse beating: But Matthews is the typical size of an EDGE defender in most any scheme.</p><p></p><p>Von Miller: 249. Clay's bigger.</p><p>Khalil Mack: 247. Clay's bigger.</p><p>Demarcus Lawrence: 250. Clay's bigger</p><p>Justin Houston: 258. Willing to call that Equal?</p><p>Melvin Ingram: 265</p><p>Chandler Jones: 260</p><p>Jadeveon Clowney: 267</p><p>Ryan Kerrigan: 260 </p><p>Carl Lawson: 260</p><p>Bosa: 276. </p><p>Everson Griffin: 273</p><p>Brandon Graham: 269</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mradtke66, post: 780198, member: 4199"] Correct here. 1/2 right. Yes, it might collapse the pocket. But if you aren't threatening around the edge, the QB is not under duress. Edge rush + Interior rush are related. If all you have is edge rush, the QB can step up. If all you have is interior rush, the quarterback can just drop back a little further and/or escape contain and again not be threatened. So, when I read that, all I hear is: Step 1, steal underpants, Step 3, profit. And no details what step 2 actually is. Yes, those three linemen + Perry and Matthews in base is an excellent run defense. That's kind of the point of a 3-4--you play bigger linemen to clog up the middle and play two ends. Ideally, the front 5 in a 3-4 is bigger than the front 5 of a 4-3 in total. We get to 5 in each by comparing including 4-3's SOLB and both 3-4 OLBs. But again, one passing downs, those bigger, slower guys are at a disadvantage. Across the board, NT, DT, 3T, 5T, 7, Wide9, the pass rusher will be smaller than the run stuffer. Bigger is great in the run game, when the defense wins by merely saying, "No, you move me." Pass rushing is attacking a gap. And rushing the passer is more tiring. Dragging that extra weight will tire guys out faster. Compared to OTs, that weight is an advantage. An OT in pass protection is catching. He uses that weight to anchor and he doesn't have to move as far, for as long, or as quickly. OT is largely about efficiency of movement. A sideline to sideline linebacker isn't going to help in pass rush. It's not that I don't value the power, it's that compromises have to be made. Friction is a thing, budgets are a thing, etc etc. I would prefer 300 pound DEs that can run a 4.5 40. But those guys are somewhere between "non-existent" and "stupid rare." I'd happily have a prime Reggie at EDGE in any scheme. Ditto Peppers or JJ Watt. But there are only so many of those guys period, let alone those guys playing at the same time, let alone on the same team. So you start to compromise and optimize: take what is shown to be useful at each position and be willing to give up what isn't strictly required. Interior linemen are bigger to take abuse in the running game. They also tend to be shorter, in the hopes they have better leverage against double teams. Speed isn't generally important at all. This gets more and more extreme the closer you get to the center. A 0-NT will be the biggest, a 1-NT might be a little smaller, 3Ts regularly slip under 300 pounds. Also, you need to adjust your weight preferences in general. Your talk of 320, pass rushing DEs is crazy. The only one I've seen close to that was Pickett in 2010. And he was no pass rusher--he was a run-down blocker eater. 280 is huge DE in 4-3 schemes. As you get further away from the center, straight weight isn't as important, because the job changes. Outside contain, keeping the quarterback in the pocket, and getting your hands up in the air, makes length/height more important. Part of that is also how rushing works on the edge vs. the interior. Interior rushing is wrestling, the outside it boxing. OTs, with the long arms and kickstep can neutralize bigger, slower players from the second the ball is snapped. Inside hands is the key. If the OT can get to your chest plate, he's won. If you're 320 and 6'1", you likely have some stubby arms. He's 315, 6'5". Get that chest plate, lock arms, and that rusher won't be pushing a damn thing. Size be damned. Thus, you want your EDGE guys to also have long arms to counter the OT's long arms. More dead-horse beating: But Matthews is the typical size of an EDGE defender in most any scheme. Von Miller: 249. Clay's bigger. Khalil Mack: 247. Clay's bigger. Demarcus Lawrence: 250. Clay's bigger Justin Houston: 258. Willing to call that Equal? Melvin Ingram: 265 Chandler Jones: 260 Jadeveon Clowney: 267 Ryan Kerrigan: 260 Carl Lawson: 260 Bosa: 276. Everson Griffin: 273 Brandon Graham: 269 [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Members online
weeds
shockerx
PackerinSD
Latest posts
Bucks 2024-25 Season Thread
Latest: weeds
1 minute ago
Milwaukee Bucks Forum
Questions that Define the Draft (2025)
Latest: Dantés
36 minutes ago
Draft Talk
Top 30 Visits 2025
Latest: OldSchool101
37 minutes ago
Draft Talk
Dome over Lambeau?
Latest: weeds
39 minutes ago
Green Bay Packers Fan Forum
R
Best FA in NFL History
Latest: RicFlairoftheNFL
40 minutes ago
Green Bay Packers Fan Forum
Forums
Open Football Discussion
Green Bay Packers Fan Forum
Packers' defensive line looks to rise to another level
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top
