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<blockquote data-quote="HardRightEdge" data-source="post: 629560"><p>Frankly, I don't recall exactly what I said. But I'm sure I said he was better in run defense than others would have it. If my statement was something to the effect of, "Sure, why not, if the price was right," I have not seen anything to change that opinion.</p><p></p><p>If that meant letting a guy like Palmer go, that would not have been any particular loss.</p><p></p><p>Following whatever my exact offseason opinions might have been, I told you in preseason I was cold on Palmer, what with falling down in the hole and other unpretty plays. I've seen nothing to assuage those concerns.</p><p></p><p>In fact, as a run defender, I'd take the Hawk I saw last season over the Palmer I see in this one. I was curious to see the Hawk PFF comparison since I had not seen him play this season. Palmer's PFF ratings are simply a comparable to what I already expressed, directly to you in fact.</p><p></p><p>Here's one flaw in McGinn's recent Hawk vs. Palmer assessment vis a vis the run game. While a player like Hawk will jump out at you on those occasions when his feet are "screwed to the ground" (or whatever similar phrase was used), or when he was pushed out of the play, or when a ball carrier dragged him for a few yard, with those gaffs exposed in space, he would also be where he should have been a good percentage of the time. While that may be slim compensation or damning with faint praise, it does have some value in that the runner might have to reroute, Hawk might get an arm on him and slow him down, or being dragged is better than not being in the play at all.</p><p></p><p>Another player who is not in the position where decent instincts should take him, who gets sealed off away from the play or is just plain late to the ball, might not get notice for what he didn't do...unless he falls down in the hole if anybody is paying attention.</p><p></p><p>The thorny issue is pass coverage. Hawk was decidedly slower than tolerable. But guess what...Palmer isn't much better. Thompson had to go out and get him a caddy to take his spot in dime after he got lit up in coverage against Chicago. In nickel, they keep his coverage responsibilities limited to close proximity to the line of scrimmage, and he still doesn't look very good. Matthews, et. al. get to chase guys like Gates instead.</p><p></p><p>I don't know if you listened to McGinn's podcast where he hit the lighlights of his run defense piece. He concluded by saying that Hawk is getting playing time in Cincy as an injury replacement, Cincy is 5-0 (now 6-0), "so what do I know". A pause followed. Then one last, "Oh, but Hawk was just so terrible," comment so as to not sound like he was retracting his piece which, as you well know, focused on the absence of Hawk as the root cause of the defensive improvement.</p><p></p><p>The long and short of it...Palmer is no upgrade over Hawk, as hard as you may find that to believe.</p><p></p><p>So whatever improvements you see in the defense over last season, Hawk's departure is very low on the totem pole of causes.</p><p></p><p>Now, if there were team dynamics and interpersonal issues involved, that would be another matter. Demoting somebody can be a locker room issue if the player is not completely right with it. Wanting to purge as many offending parties as practical from the NFCC debacle has some merit. We don't know if Hawk made it known that he preferred his release over some marginal role and a renegotiation. But I'm not in those places or privy to those conversations, and have not seen anybody report on them either, so I'll stick to what I see on the field.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="HardRightEdge, post: 629560"] Frankly, I don't recall exactly what I said. But I'm sure I said he was better in run defense than others would have it. If my statement was something to the effect of, "Sure, why not, if the price was right," I have not seen anything to change that opinion. If that meant letting a guy like Palmer go, that would not have been any particular loss. Following whatever my exact offseason opinions might have been, I told you in preseason I was cold on Palmer, what with falling down in the hole and other unpretty plays. I've seen nothing to assuage those concerns. In fact, as a run defender, I'd take the Hawk I saw last season over the Palmer I see in this one. I was curious to see the Hawk PFF comparison since I had not seen him play this season. Palmer's PFF ratings are simply a comparable to what I already expressed, directly to you in fact. Here's one flaw in McGinn's recent Hawk vs. Palmer assessment vis a vis the run game. While a player like Hawk will jump out at you on those occasions when his feet are "screwed to the ground" (or whatever similar phrase was used), or when he was pushed out of the play, or when a ball carrier dragged him for a few yard, with those gaffs exposed in space, he would also be where he should have been a good percentage of the time. While that may be slim compensation or damning with faint praise, it does have some value in that the runner might have to reroute, Hawk might get an arm on him and slow him down, or being dragged is better than not being in the play at all. Another player who is not in the position where decent instincts should take him, who gets sealed off away from the play or is just plain late to the ball, might not get notice for what he didn't do...unless he falls down in the hole if anybody is paying attention. The thorny issue is pass coverage. Hawk was decidedly slower than tolerable. But guess what...Palmer isn't much better. Thompson had to go out and get him a caddy to take his spot in dime after he got lit up in coverage against Chicago. In nickel, they keep his coverage responsibilities limited to close proximity to the line of scrimmage, and he still doesn't look very good. Matthews, et. al. get to chase guys like Gates instead. I don't know if you listened to McGinn's podcast where he hit the lighlights of his run defense piece. He concluded by saying that Hawk is getting playing time in Cincy as an injury replacement, Cincy is 5-0 (now 6-0), "so what do I know". A pause followed. Then one last, "Oh, but Hawk was just so terrible," comment so as to not sound like he was retracting his piece which, as you well know, focused on the absence of Hawk as the root cause of the defensive improvement. The long and short of it...Palmer is no upgrade over Hawk, as hard as you may find that to believe. So whatever improvements you see in the defense over last season, Hawk's departure is very low on the totem pole of causes. Now, if there were team dynamics and interpersonal issues involved, that would be another matter. Demoting somebody can be a locker room issue if the player is not completely right with it. Wanting to purge as many offending parties as practical from the NFCC debacle has some merit. We don't know if Hawk made it known that he preferred his release over some marginal role and a renegotiation. But I'm not in those places or privy to those conversations, and have not seen anybody report on them either, so I'll stick to what I see on the field. [/QUOTE]
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